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wilmac  
#1 Posted : 05 November 2013 08:21:47(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
wilmac

Hi All We currently employ a core workforce who get issued all PPE, including boots and overalls, We are in an upturn situation and have to employ Sub Contractors through an agency who may be required for 3 or 4 shifts depending on work fronts We dont mind supplying them with gloves, glasses, Hard Hat etc. but ovies and boots at approx £100 per head certainly mounts up, and the agency will not guarentee we get the same people returning to us, Looking at the regs the only grey area is agency workers, Core workers are issued with all PPE and Self Employed supply there own Can we state to the agency as a condition of employment any temporary workers must supply there own boots and overalls ? During induction this issue would be covered, thanks, Wilmac,
Animax01  
#2 Posted : 05 November 2013 08:44:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Animax01

Hi Wilmac, I just read this from the ppe GUIDANCE "Can I charge for providing PPE? An employer cannot ask for money from an employee for PPE, whether it is returnable or not. This includes agency workers, if they are legally regarded as your employees. If employment has been terminated and the employee keeps the PPE without the employer’s permission, then, as long as it has been made clear in the contract of employment, the employer may be able to deduct the cost of the replacement from any wages owed." The part that states " This includes agency workers, if they are legally regarded as your employees". I suppose you now have to decide if they are your workers or the agency's? Could it be up to the agency to have to provide suitable PPE to their workers...? Pete
Daz  
#3 Posted : 05 November 2013 09:23:08(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Daz

I have had this discussion with agency directors previously and it was agreed that the fact that you are engaging the services of an agency for the required labour moves the requirement of supplying PPE to the agency. The employer as regards the employee is the agency.
Canopener  
#4 Posted : 05 November 2013 10:48:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Many of us will sympathise with your predicament. We have discussed the matter of who is responsible for PPE in this sort of situation a number of times before, at some length, and it might be worth a search to see the previous discussions. However, briefly, it is something of a festering sore that the HSE hasn't really tackled, and there may be a reason why that is the case. The guidance quoted is of limited use though. Who the employer is for 'health and safety' purposes (and specifically for the issue of PPE) as opposed to PAYE/NI purposes may well be different. In many cases the employer for H&S purposes will often be the 'user' employer rather than the 'provider'. I have to say that it is unusual for an agency to 'accept' that workers they supply are their employees, as most following 'legal advice' will assert that they aren't their employees and that they act as an agent for ‘contract for services’.
georgiec  
#5 Posted : 05 November 2013 12:54:35(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
georgiec

Hi We have a lot of different agencies that supply us with agency workers. We agreed with the agencies that the agency worker must supply their own safety shoes but we provide any other PPE that is required for their job. I personally think that people who sign on for agencies for warehouse or construction jobs have their own safety shoes anyway. You should try and negotiate with the agencies and get it stipulated with them that anyone coming to your place for work has to have safety shoes. With regards the boiler suits could you not have a small supply of them in stock for agency use only?
Canopener  
#6 Posted : 05 November 2013 17:02:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

This has always been the approach that I have taken, and I think something that either the PPE and/or temporary workers guidance alludes to. Get agreement on who does what before hand and hopefully there is little/less room for manoeuvre. Do be aware that if you require the agency to provide, they may recoup this in their 'on cost'.
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