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ehsa  
#1 Posted : 09 December 2013 17:03:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ehsa

Hi all, I have been requested an opinion regarding the safety involved in the Pneumatic pressure test of a lubeoil storage tank. To be frank this is the first time in dealing with such an issue and would like some clarification if possible. The tank has a maximum allowable working pressure 1.74 bar and hydrostatic test pressure of 2.65 bar it is a 24,000 litre tank. The contractors want to conduct a pneumatic test taking it up to 4 bar pressure using air ! From what I have read from ASME docs is that the test pressure using a pnumatic method should only be 1.1 times the design pressure which should be 1.1 x 1.74 bar is this correct?


Could someone point me in the right direction regarding the testint of such vessels?
JJ Prendergast  
#2 Posted : 09 December 2013 17:27:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Hydraulic testing is much safer than pneumatic testing.

The compressed energy per unit volume is greater when pneumatic testing.

Hydrauic test if you can, would be my recommendation.

If the tank were to fail under test, hydraulic failure is likely to be less dramatic ....
paul.skyrme  
#3 Posted : 09 December 2013 18:41:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Change your contractors, they are obviously incompetent if they are looking to undertake a pneumatic test!

Think about the stored energy.

If the tank did suffer catastrophic failure during the test the pneumatic test could well prove deadly, a hydraulic test has much less stored energy.

There is documentation on the HSE site wrt this.

4 bar @ 24000 litres, work this back to atmospheric and look at the volume of air that will come out explosively in the event of a catastrophic failure.
ehsa  
#4 Posted : 09 December 2013 20:11:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ehsa

Thanks for that even though I am new in the field it seemed that they have approached the planning of the task in completely the wrong way if possible if anyone has a standard for such a job to be carried out safely then that would be much appreciated.
paul.skyrme  
#5 Posted : 09 December 2013 20:32:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

MEden380  
#6 Posted : 10 December 2013 09:17:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

Looking at this thread I am intrigued how a hydralic test would be carried out on a 24000 litre tank (seems to be a lot of fluid sloshing around).
A pressure test using gas seems a much better option, but not to 4 bar. I would also consider using an inert gas such as nitrogen not air
Jane Blunt  
#7 Posted : 10 December 2013 09:27:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

MEden has a point about the quantity of liquid sloshing around. You do have to be careful of the orientation and the support of the vessel, or it may fail simply due to the weight of the water.

However, I would want to be a very large distance away if someone was going to pressure test this with a gas. Pneumatic testing is extra-ordinarily dangerous compared to hydraulic testing. Even the latter can be dangerous as parts of the vessel can be ejected with a lot of energy. Over the pressure test pit belonging to my previous employer the roof panels were new, because a part of a pressure vessel had left the building via that route when under test.

Generally vessels are tested when they are new, and subsequently they are inspected and perhaps some non-destructive testing done to check that they have not deteriorated. Full pressure tests subsequently are relatively infrequent.
Phil Grace  
#8 Posted : 10 December 2013 09:56:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Just to reiterate what has been said:

Pnuematic testing is inherently more dangerous than a hydraulic test
Not sure why it would be any less risky using nitrogen as has been suggested by one poster
There is good guidance from HSE

Testing should take place under controlled conditions: ideally in a specially designated area, behind blast walls etc. And there should be the minimum number of personnel in area. Perhaps something to be done "after hours".

I am aware of a "on the hoof" decision to change from established practice of hydraulic testing to pneumatic. Vessel exploded, one seriously injured, other narrowly escaped injury and significant damage to building.
Phil
Graham Bullough  
#9 Posted : 10 December 2013 10:35:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

ehsa

As others have already explained, hydraulic testing should always be used unless there are very good reasons against it. In a similar thread on this forum some time ago I mentioned involvement with pressure testing during my HSE days. This included a discussion with a company about pressure testing of hyperbaric chambers used by divers for North Sea oil industry work. With assistance from one of HSE's senior engineering inspectors it was agreed that hydraulic testing of such chambers was not reasonably practicable in view of i) how any test liquid would affect the electrical and other complex fittings within such chambers and ii) the time and effort, etc., needed to remove such equipment before hydraulic testing and subsequently refit it. However, for pneumatic testing very stringent precautions were required. These included doing it on a large and remote site with blast walls or berms and other measures to protect those controlling the testing remotely from a suitable bunker. Alas, the forum search facility seems to be inoperative at present so I can't find and provide a link to the relevant thread.

Another thought: Are there any good reasons why the lube oil tank (already in use rather than being made as a new entity) needs to be pressure tested? Is the tank subject to internal pressure when in use, perhaps as part of a bigger process, or is it simply a storage vessel (like many other tanks e.g. for heating oil in buildings) which just needs to be capable of containing the volume and weight of the oil?
johnmurray  
#10 Posted : 10 December 2013 10:56:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

I expect the use of nitrogen was because of the hydrocarbons the tank has stored within....after all, they are considering a pressure of 60psi with flammable gases within...
As for the weight....probably not heavier than oil....
If water, then the tank is obviously going to need thorough cleaning after!
I would have thought that if a failure was possible, it would have occurred by now. A leak would be visible anyway.
You could always top it up with lube oil, and then get it hydraulic tested using the oil!
ehsa  
#11 Posted : 10 December 2013 11:05:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ehsa

Graham Bullough you are right and it is something we have just discussed the need for the lubeoil tank to be pressure tested, the vessels are under no other pressure other than the weight of the lubeoil within it.

The problem is that these tanks were not designed for this purpose and basically we would like to ascertain whether:

1.They leak
2. Will they collapse due to fail due to their poor state of repair and age 1984 manufacture.

Do you know what would be the procedure/standard sufficiently adequate certify the tanks are adequate for their use?

aland76  
#12 Posted : 10 December 2013 11:42:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

If i'm reading this right you are looking to pressure test a vessel which stores no more pressure than that of the liquid it holds? If that is the case then the PSSR regs do not apply, and you do not need to pressure test the vessel anyway.

Further to this if the tanks are in a poor state of repair and are liable to leak, and were not originally designed as a pressure vessel I would think it highly unwise to go ahead with pressure testing, and it's certainly something I wouldn't sanction on our site.

Alan
Phil Grace  
#13 Posted : 11 December 2013 11:29:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Re John Murray et al
Sorry guys - if I had bothered to re-read the OP I would have spotted the suggestion of nitrogen was to counter possible explosion/increased fire risk since the tank had held lube oil...!

Message to self: always read and re-read the OP before typing a response!

Phil
JJ Prendergast  
#14 Posted : 11 December 2013 11:37:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

I think that is a side issue. Without doing the calculation, the pressure suggested seems low to cause compression ignition.

The fundamental point is that to use a gas to perform the pressure test is a silly idea - given the stored energy in a gas compared to a liquid.

Hence the earlier comments about hydraulic pressure testing.

Also as others have suggested, if the only pressure is caused by the static head of the liquid level, then PSSR won't apply.
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