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MrsBlue  
#1 Posted : 10 December 2013 12:42:23(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Had a heart attack at work 9 weeks ago and this is my third week back to work. I feel as fit as a fiddle all things and considered. I wondered recently, just how well first aiders are trained in recognising the symptoms of a heart attack - it turns out they're not. In my case I was in a meeting and a fellow colleague (first aid trained) would not believe the pain in my chest was indigestion, called an ambulance and I was on the operating table within the hour. She probably saved my life. Thought provoking experience. Rich
Canopener  
#2 Posted : 10 December 2013 12:55:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

The symptoms of indigestion/heartburn are very similar to those associated with heart problems such as angina and 'minor' heart attacks. Even Drs can get it wrong. My eldest brother was being treated for heartburn when he was actually suffering from CAD/angina and subsequently died of a heart attack. My brothers 'history' ultimately probably saved me from the same fate. It is also possible to have had a heart attack and not really know that you have. ECG doesn't always identify all 'heart problems' and generally the 'test' for heart attacks is a blood test to look for heart 'repairing' enzymes. Keep smiling and no more pork scratchings for you!
JohnW  
#3 Posted : 10 December 2013 16:46:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Rich777 wrote:
I wondered recently, just how well first aiders are trained in recognising the symptoms of a heart attack - it turns out they're not.
Rich, just to clear up the misunderstandings - you think first aiders are NOT well trained to recognise a heart attack, but your first aider DID recognise a heart attack?
MrsBlue  
#4 Posted : 11 December 2013 10:44:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Oh Dear what a can of worms I released with my OP. No way was I criticising anyone, particularly first aiders. I was in a meeting and couldn't concentrate seeing as I had had a pain in the middle of my chest all morning and suddenly came over all sweaty and had to take off my jumper and open a window. My colleague then asked me a few simple questions e.g. do you have any aches and pains in certain places (down the left side, the back and the neck) all additional signs besides the profuse sweating, of things possibly not quite right with the old ticker. I answered that the aches and pains were spreading so she called an ambulance. I actually spoke to the emergency services myself and gave them my symptoms over the phone. The ECG in the ambulance confirmed I had had a heart attack. I have been on many FA courses and do not remember anything specific being said about heart attacks symptoms hence my original comment. The only thing I remember being taught is if a casualty's heart stops beating (for whatever reason) and then to carry out CPR. Rich
hilary  
#5 Posted : 11 December 2013 10:50:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Welcome back Rich777, I think your colleague deserves flowers and chocolates at the very least and thankfully you had someone with a good dollop of common sense about her regardless of any first aid training.
MrsBlue  
#6 Posted : 11 December 2013 11:02:07(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Flowers, chocolates and an almighty great hug were given on my first day back at work. Rich
Kate  
#7 Posted : 11 December 2013 11:36:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Well done that first aider - and she was in fact following the standard procedure that first aiders are trained in. All the first aid courses I've been on have included recognising heart attack, and the difference between heart attack and cardiac arrest. Something may have gone wrong somewhere if this was missed out from a first aid course. It really is part of the standard contents. What sort of first aid courses did you go on, Rich?
teh_boy  
#8 Posted : 12 December 2013 11:58:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Just to add some clarity and to provide some helpful advice... I hope :) Some confusion here between -'heart attack' and cardiac arrest. It can get even more confusing as the symptoms may be angina and not a heart attack. heart attack - narrowing of the arteries into the heart, can be to a variety of levels - First aid, 999 - sit in 'W' position and calm and reassure casualty - can include giving aspirin (see current HSE advice) cardiac arrest - the heart stops pumping blood - immediately life threatening First aid -requires immediate 999 and CPR. angina - narrowing of heart vessels, patient will have diagnosis and medication - if not treat as above, if they carry medication encourage them to take it, if symptoms don't get better with GTN spray - 999 <B>If in doubt - call 999</B> A source to help clarify the above - http://www.bhf.org.uk/he...itions/heart-attack.aspx and never forget if the casualty stops breathing - trained first aiders will know what to do, everyone else think staying alive:
I get asked all the time - isn't it best to walk on by in case I get sued, it makes me sad every-time, So well done to that first aider! They made a difference! AT the original poster - just out of interest did you do a one day or three day first course? this could explain the difference in knowledge, first aid is just that, first aid and a one day course is always going to limited on detail. Glad you are OK and back on your feet! Oh and why oh why is this stuff not taught in schools?
teh_boy  
#9 Posted : 12 December 2013 11:59:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Oh and I forgot to add - early defib to cardiac arrest or unconscious heart attack... Defibs save lives - lets all try and encourage our organisations to get one for Christmas!
moderator 5  
#10 Posted : 13 December 2013 11:02:53(UTC)
Rank: Moderator
moderator 5

This thread is now open again. Please respect forum rules 2.2 and 6 when posting on the forums. Forum Rule 2. When using the forums you are expected to be polite and respectful towards all forum users including the Forum Moderators and IOSH employees. Forum Rule 2.2. Please do not indulge in personal criticism of other users. Forum Rule 6.2. If you are concerned about a moderating decision, posts or communications from a moderator, the forum rules or another user’s behaviour /profile/post/private message, please use the Report Message link available beneath every post. Alternatively you can email webteam@iosh.co.uk. thank you, IOSH Moderating Team
MrsBlue  
#11 Posted : 17 December 2013 09:09:25(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Good post teh-boy and to be clear I had a heart attack. I have never attended a 3 day first aid course only the emergency one day and none of these one day courses mentioned heart attacks only if the casualty's heart has stopped (for what ever reason) and to carry out CPR etc. Rich
ctd167  
#12 Posted : 17 December 2013 10:06:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ctd167

I'm a first aider and even i didnt recognise my own heart attack when i was having it 7 years ago.
stephie  
#13 Posted : 17 December 2013 10:06:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stephie

Just to add, I was taught that one of the best things you can do is give the casualty aspirin (if they are conscious etc).
Rees21880  
#14 Posted : 17 December 2013 16:17:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rees21880

Hi Stephie The latest FA training is not to give any medication unless the person confirms that they are already prescribed something. Aspririn etc may have been allowable in the past, however, it no longer is.... Rich - nice post and congrats on making nine weeks. Have a fab, fun-filled festive hol :-) Pete
Kate.  
#15 Posted : 17 December 2013 16:23:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kate.

Aspirin for heart attacks is still an exception to that rule.
MrsBlue  
#16 Posted : 18 December 2013 10:53:28(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Must be a different rule for ambulance staff and paramedics as Kate says. I was given 4 aspirin tablets immediately, then 4 more following the ECG in the ambulance, and 4 more in the operating theatre before the start of the operation. All within 45 minutes and I was never asked if I was allergic or anything. Seasons greetings to all Rich
Barrie(Badger)Etter  
#17 Posted : 18 December 2013 11:05:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Barrie(Badger)Etter

Rich Glad you're well on the recovery road. Taking first aiders & recognising heart problems - Paramedics do cover a lot of issues on a regular basis whereas a company first aider despite good training will rarely come across such a situation. This is where the holding of a defib kit (and making it mandatory to have IMHO) help improve the situation. Badger
Kate.  
#18 Posted : 19 December 2013 09:38:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kate.

It's not that it's a different rule for paramedics. First aiders at work are still advised to give aspirin for heart attack, although not to offer medication in any other circumstances (they may of course help an ill person to take their own prescription medication).
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