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Animax01  
#1 Posted : 20 December 2013 14:15:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Animax01

Has anybody heard about this in the news? I happened a while ago, but they are finally getting there. http://www.buryfreepress...e-and-carriage-1-4333765 http://www.buryfreepress...-safety-breach-1-4931503 Last I heard was that the hose owner was trying to retract his admittance of guilt but it was rejected. Its a shocking incident that should never have happened, some people seem to forget how dangerous and powerful horses can really be.
DavidGault  
#2 Posted : 20 December 2013 15:08:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidGault

Perhaps surprisingly fatalities caused by horses around th turn of the 20th century outweigh the modern deathtoll for cars. My great great aunt was decapitated in an incident involving a horse and cart and in the 1930s my father had his leg broken in a incident where he was run over by a horse and cart (he was a small boy at the time). So to back your statement up - yes I think you are right, although we tend to think of modern traffic as dangerous, horses are no less so and it is easy to forget that fact.
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 21 December 2013 00:22:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

If I may offer a slightly different perspective. When it comes to public events, I'm always reminded of the 1952 Farnborough Air Show disaster, when the De Havilland DH110 prototype broke up in mid-air, resulting in 31 deaths and 60+ other casualties. No criminal proceedings. Not one civil claim. In the aftermath of the disaster, significant safety changes were agreed and voluntarily adopted at all future shows across the World. In this instance- will the prosecution do anything to reduce risk or stop this happening again? Is criminal prosecution a necessary or appropriate 'remedy'?
Canopener  
#4 Posted : 22 December 2013 16:13:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

The links you have posted are 'old'. The inquest found for accidental death and St Ed's BC were found not guilty of breach of HASAWA S3. I believe that the owner of the horse has pleaded guilty but is yet to be sentenced. While it is clearly a shocking incident, it is nevertheless so easy for those of us sitting in our ivory towers with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to be 'critical' of perceived failings. While we can always ask ourselves the question "Would I have foreseen this and done it differently" we can't eradicate the knowledge of hindsight and it is therefore somewhat difficult to be able to answer the question objectively. The issue of foreseeability is fraught with difficulty, as has been recently discussed on this forum in relation to the firework display case.
Animax01  
#5 Posted : 23 December 2013 09:03:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Animax01

Hello Canopener, They are old but I don't remember seeing anything about it on here and thought that I would share. It's a very reasonable point that you raise, the animal may have been the most placid and well behaved beast the owner had ever known. He may have never experienced such an incident before and therefore may not have been mentally prepared to foresee or accept that this could or would happen. Maybe the incident will allow us to make some better judgements with with regards to half tonne animals and public places. As for his plea. I believe that he tried to change it from guilty to not guilty, but that request was denied. Jury is still out for now....
Betta Spenden  
#6 Posted : 26 December 2013 10:47:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Betta Spenden

Horses are strong, that's why the Police still use them for crowd control. True, those are well trained horses. Living out in the country I encounter horse riders day in day out and have lost count of the number of hi-vis vests that I have given out when encountering horse riders at tylight. Also lost count of the number of times that I have come across a horse not under full control and awaited/half expected the thump as it kicks my door in. All horses should be registered and fully insured to be on the queens highway IMO. BUT, in reality, its not going to happen and more people were killed by trams in the UK than horses that week. So I say keep it in perspective.
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 27 December 2013 21:12:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

There is no mention in the article what the health and safety charge was, presumably under s3? I am surprised the horse owner pleaded guilty. Surely a lawyer would have advised him he had a good chance of being found not guilty under the 'reasonably foreseeable' principle. A tragic case for sure. However these things do happen, animals can be unpredictable, even placid ones can get spooked for some reason. Is the owner really responsible for all eventualities?
farmsafety  
#8 Posted : 27 December 2013 23:21:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
farmsafety

Appears to be S3: "failing as an employer to ensure that visitors to Nowton Park Country Fair in June 2011 were not exposed to risks to health and safety". Pleaded guilty on advice of his insurers! http://www.sudburymercur...air_death_case_1_3081924
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 28 December 2013 00:48:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

farmsafety Thanks for the link. It does say that insurers advised they would not continue funding his legal representation if he denied the offence. So, is someone's innocence now dependant on the goodwill of insurance companies? We will all be hung if that is the case! I fail to see why the Judge would not allow the accused to change his plea. Given that the LA was found not guilty of the same offence I would have thought this would have given extra weight to the change of plea. I thought British justice was supposed to be the best in the world...
Ciaran Delaney  
#10 Posted : 28 December 2013 08:28:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ciaran Delaney

Hi Ray, I wonder if the insurance companies stance has been brought to the attention of the trial judge. Also a lot of people would disagree with "British justice being the best in the world", my friend. It's being undermined by the behaviour of some of those charged with providing "fair evidence", same as happpens in most other jurisdictions around the world.
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 30 December 2013 10:09:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

farmsafety wrote:
Appears to be S3: "failing as an employer to ensure that visitors to Nowton Park Country Fair in June 2011 were not exposed to risks to health and safety". Pleaded guilty on advice of his insurers! http://www.sudburymercur...air_death_case_1_3081924
I thought insurers didn't provide for criminal cases only civil actions, probably for the reasons discussed in the next response ie insurers might force people to plead guilty to save themselves money.
mistyhall  
#12 Posted : 14 January 2014 09:34:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mistyhall

I own ten horses ( mostly TB's) and any that go out onto the road are insured. If dull/dark or bad weather then hi viz is also worn. I encounter bad drivers everday!! I pull over and always thank them as i feel a lot of riders do not! My horses are generally well behaved however they are horses and we dont know how they will react. So i can not see what more someone could do, if they had used a well trained cariage horse. My only thought to the incident being both a horse owner AND a health and safety professional is at all times a bitted head collar was to be used and in the event of breaks where the bit needed to be removed the horse should of been unharnessed and put into a coral/back in the lorry. Incidentially ALL racecourses insist that ALL horses when not bridled are wearing a chiffney not just a plain head collar whilst not in the stable or the lorry and a lot of shows are now refusing to let you tie a horse to the back of the trailer/lorry instead they must be in the lorry. Very sad incident.
Canopener  
#13 Posted : 20 January 2014 14:04:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Animax01  
#14 Posted : 20 January 2014 14:34:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Animax01

Thanks canopener, I'm not sure if the 200 hours community service will make the family feel any better. At least it has reached a conclusion that will remind service providers that they cannot act with impunity.
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