What are you - "the clothes police"?

Well spotted- give the man a banana

A competent auditor will be able to identify what we refer to as "wet-paint" i.e. an action that was undertaken at the last minute to close a non-conformance or an auditable item. My view is that the primary purpose of the audit is compliance and support the auditable facility/area for improvements where there is non-compliance. It is management and leadership failure if they want to use the audit process to "catch people doing naughty things" If the management concern is justified by evidence, then an unannounced audit could identify weaknesses, but local supervision and management should be aware of the shortcomings and should be putting things right with senior management support,

I do a bit of both. If I know I’m going to need some of the manager’s time I let them know in advance so they can plan their time. It’s not catching them out, it is helping them manage. When you audit / inspect you will see things which they have become blind to. One manager actually welcomed my unannounced visits as it keeps him on his toes. Not only the tone either, but they way you then go forward. What can WE do to put this right, make this better. Ok in reality it is them that has to do whatever, but sometimes it is nice to discuss the issues. Sometimes in H&S you can feel like you are in the corner on your own, do you think other managers don’t feel the same, so welcome help or constructive criticism. They may have wanted to do things differently or be unaware of what is actually happening themselves and have now gained allies. I think it is partly if they see the audits / inspections as a waste of time or useful. If they can put right whatever may be wrong in the period of notice you give, things can not be all bad (anyone get the workplace cleaned up / sorted out before an external audit – Yeah thought not). However it is easy to only do the right thing as the H&S bod will be here today. So I think a bit of both is worthwhile, but you are bound to alienate someone PS are there thongs which are not naughty? That is one thorough inspection you carry out, is there a naughtiness scale? To be honest I don’t fancy checking this where I work announced or otherwise.

Totally agree with imwaldra Audits are intended to check that systems are working as they are supposed to. If you happen to catch someone doing something wrong during an audit it is a clear indication that systems are failing. I would suggest this is flagged up as a management rather than an individual failure. It does frustrate me that a lot of people view audit and inspection as the same thing. Part of audit should be to collect evidence that inspections are taking place and are effective at dealing with issues.

neither a H&S adviser rather than a consultant

Nicely worded Pete48, I'm a qualified internal quality auditor (ISO 9001) and OHSAS auditor/lead auditor (18001) so my audits vary across the business from aircraft maintenance quality audits to auditing our on site facilities maintenance contractors and caterers. My policy is that all audits are contained within the annual audit plan which all Line Managers and contractors can access on the company intranet site, that will tell them which month in the coming year they will be audited but as a courtesy I advise the various departments via memo and verbal brief of the proposed date of audit usually at least one week in advance, which will identify the scope of the audit. I have never conducted a "No Notice" audit but have conducted "No Notice" inspections in areas (Catering) where previous audits have highlighted concerns but these no notice inspections have been briefed as part of the original audit debrief with the concerned manager. So, yes they are unannounced but should be expected. Audits are not a tool for catching people out but a system of gathering evidence to support an organizations claims that they are doing what they claim to be doing against a set standard. Auditing is an important function in maintaining Quality/Safety standards but its not foolproof, they have to be conducted in a professional unbiased manner and I feel that subjecting "No Notice" audits internally would erode the confidence and working relationship between the Quality/Safety function within an organization and the operational side of the business. We have reporting systems in place (Confidential or otherwise) whereby individuals can report concerns which will immediately launch an internal investigation if warranted, so auditing is an important tool but its not the only one.

I always start with pre-planned audits, weeks notice, everyone involved, etc. If that works and safety standards & performance are good, that continues. If standards or performance slip then continue with planned but include adhhoc with no advanced notice. Between the 2 approaches you will get a good idea of what's happening. That said audits are an assurance tool - something to examine that you are doing what you said you would - not a fault finding exercise. When they are viewed as the latter the become ineffective and can produce negative views towards the programme and process.