Rank: Super forum user 
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Hi all,
As a business we are currently acting as Principal Contractor on a construction project within a live environment (public and client staff present) but have found ourselves in an unusual situation which i'd be interested to hear people's opinions on....
Our normal working week on site is Mon-Fri 9-5. However, for reasons i won't bore you with some of our works now need to be undertaken during this coming weekend rather than during the week as previously planned. As a result of this, we have had to ask for extra money to pay for a site manager to be in attendance for the weekend .
The problem is the client is refusing to pay for us to have a site manager in attendance and the CDMC has responded by sending us....wait for it... a form to sign which apparently allows us to relinquish our role/responsibilities as Principal Contractor for these particular works and then to become PC again once they've been completed!?!
Now if this was the client wanting their own handyman to carry out work in an area/room etc after we've formally completed and handed it back then that's fine in my eyes. The construction work (under the F10) in that area would complete and the area would now be theirs again to do with as they wish.
However in this case, these are previously planned construction works being undertaken by contractors already involved in the project. I can't see how we could defend ourselves as a business (and the named PC on the F10) should something bad happen.
Thoughts....?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Stern wrote:..........Our normal working week on site is Mon-Fri 9-5. However ..................... some of our works now need to be undertaken during this coming weekend rather than during the week as previously planned. As a result of this, we have had to ask for extra money to pay for a site manager to be in attendance for the weekend .
The problem is the client is refusing to pay ............. Why is the work being done at the weekend? [a] If it is because the Client wants it done then, and it wasn't in the original contract, then the client is probably legally/contractually obliged to pay 'reasonable additional cost', which would include suitable supevision However, [b] If it because its either easier to do then, or needs to be done as a result of the Contractors actions [i.e. - not down to the Client], extra costs should be borne by the Contractor, UNLESS there is something in the contract that deals with this Talk to your Legal/Contracts Department
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Rank: Super forum user
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Do U have to have a site manager present - cannot the foreman or chargehand manage the men or even appoint a man to act as lead-hand for the job?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks for the replies guys,
Alan,
The question wasn't so much regarding the client's contractual obligations to pay us, it was more about the idea of signing a form to temporarily relieve us of our duties as Principal Contractor midway through a project.
This is something i've never come across in several years of doing this job and something which just doesn't sound right. Surely the main role of a PC under CDM is to make sure the job is undertaken safely? The idea of getting rid of us for a couple of days mid-project just seems wrong on so many levels.
Bob,
We are a project management firm and other than a site manager (and if we're lucky a labourer or two) we won't have any of our staff on site and won't undertake any work ourselves. All of the work on site is undertaken by external contractors.
As PC our role under CDM is to ensure (amongst other things) that the site is secure, that these contractors are competent, site rules are put in place and enforced, everybody is inducted etc etc.
As a result, it's not an option for us to be absent at any stage of the project. We can't rely on external contractors/subcontractors to fulfil our legal duties under CDM because, to put it bluntly, they won't! It'd be like leaving a class of 10yr olds to teach themselves. It would be chaos!
If something was to happen (accident, property damage etc) and it transpired that we weren't on site fulfilling our legal obligations then we'd be in a world of trouble, that's undeniable. What i'm struggling to understand is the legality of signing this form to effectively stop being PC for a couple of days in the middle of the project and whether we would be covered should the worst happen.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Stern wrote:Thanks for the replies guys,
Alan,
The question wasn't so much regarding the client's contractual obligations to pay us, it was more about the idea of signing a form to temporarily relieve us of our duties as Principal Contractor midway through a project. .............quote]
I disagree - the cause of the 'problem' is your company refusing to carry out duties at a weekend unless you are paid. Sort that out and the 'problem' disappears Its contractual, nothing else!
[The CDMC's solution is, to me, novel and would need close scutiny/thought on whether it works/is legal - so sort the contract out instead]
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Rank: Super forum user
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See thread about jargo - I thought "politically correct" when I saw "PC" and thought that this would be a good thread!!
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I have come across a similar concept which was referred to by the CDMC as 'time and distance', in other words, part cessation by the PC to allow another PC to step in for the convenience of the Client. My answer was I do not recall the CDM Regs referring to 'time and distance'. You are either PC or you are not, and certainly not for a weekend on a major project.
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Rank: Forum user
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I'm presuming this isn't a Construction Site per-se e.g. hoarding, security etc. but a live building where you probably have to segregate/restrict access to sections of the building while work is carried out (if not, my answer may not be relevant)
Firstly an amicable agreement should be pursued with all parties, the CDMC should be actively encouraging this. Secondly, if my idea of the scenario is correct, if the Client wants to arrange other works outside your normal agreed hours, inside a building or area of the building where you do not have control of outside your normal working hours then I don't see what you can do about it. However, in the event of an accident during this work I would say that any liabilities would be the Clients. I would also imagine the CDMC wouldn't be flavour of the month with a judge.
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Rank: Forum user
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If my understanding is right, the work you will be carrying out at the weekend is the same as you would have been doing during your normal working times (Mon-Fri). If this is the case, nothing has changed therefore you will still be the PC for the project whatever time you carry out the work and, therefore, carry the responsibilities that go with the role. I would, therefore question the CDMC and ask why he thinks you can jump in and out of the role of PC as in my mind you can't
As stated by others, the payment problem is contractual and is not an H&S issue.
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Rank: Forum user
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Having worked for scottish water for many years as a sub contractor.
A transfer certificate was signed off at the start of the contract giving us control of the plant and process.
If something of their kit broke down and needed repairs we obtained a second transfer certificate for the duration of the their works and cordoned off their working area giving them control of their site
Effectively 2 PC on site, it works for them.
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Rank: Super forum user
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OK my two pennorth for what its worth...
First thought is that you cannot separate "contractual" problems from "health and safety" problems - as some seem to be doing here. If the contract focuses on cost time and quality but doesn't properly cover H&S - then its a bad contract, and WILL have a bad effect on the way H&S is perceived and managed within the project. If the H&S or CDM-C team decide its got bog all to do with safety - its contractual - then in my opinion - they have missed the point!
Second thought - CDM Regs offer a lot of flexibility, and there is plenty of room for manoeuver if you know what the law actually says - all the ifs buts and maybes. CDM was apparently written for simple, single trade projects - it is almost impossible to apply in a simple, straightforward way for large, complex, multi trade projects. The flexibility available must be used.
Use of transfer (or handover) processes (and certificates) should be seen as almost essential in some projects - the only caveat being that you should not allow two PCs to have 'control' of the same site at the same time (hence the 'time and distance' referred to above). If there is a robust handover process - if everyone knows and understands where and when they are in control and where or when the boundaries are - then I really don't see a problem... If the client wants or needs a contractor to do something on his premises - then the fact there is a construction project ongoing may not have any impact whatsoever on the need for that work. Why wasn't this identified in the contract? Could the client appoint his contractor as a 'nominated' subbie to the PC? And if he can - should he? What are the cost and competence issues with this approach? What does the contract say about nominated subcontractors? (if anything)
Trying to adopt an inflexible, unco-operative approach to any project situation is definitely contra-indicated. Mutual understanding and co-operation can only be achieved when all parties openly discuss and understand each other's requirements. And this is best achieved by ensuring at the outset that liaison arrangements are clearly spelled out in the contract!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks for the replies all. Certainly a grey area!
To confirm, we are PC for approx 6 weeks of work on a site operating from Mon-Fri. However, the client decided at the last minute that he would rather we undertook a certain part of the work during a weekend to reduce customer disruption.
As we had only employed a site manager from Mon-Fri, we were faced with an issue and essentially had two options:
1) Manage the weekend's work for free as they wouldn't pay us or...
2) Sign this piece of paper and stop being PC for a couple of days mid project.
I'm not too concerned about the contractual side of things (if i was i wouldn't be posting on a H&S related forum!), my question is regarding the legality, under CDM, of stopping being PC for a couple of days mid-job. Bearing in mind we would still be named on the F10!
Stern
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