Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Bill6152  
#1 Posted : 31 January 2014 13:21:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bill6152

Hi, We have been advised by two different fire services that we should not train fire marhalls to use extinguishers, in their opinion we should get out of the building and leave it to them. On a recent insurance inspection they are requesting all fire Marshalls are trained to use extinguishers. I can see the argument for both, but wanted to get a view on what other out there do please? Thanks
Frank Hallett  
#2 Posted : 31 January 2014 13:33:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

Hi Bill A not uncommon topic on this forum! First, the FSO makes it crystal clear that if you have FEs on your site, then appropriate training in their use must be provided! The only discussion that can occur here is around why you have the FEs that you do have and what your organisation considers to be "appropriate" training. The 2 are inextricably linked - the training will be based on what your expectations of the FE use are stated as. You also mention an "insurance" inspection" that "requests" that training is provided. Presumably on behalf of your business insurers? In this instance, given no more than the info that you've provided; the insurers are correct and the FSs are wrong. Incidentally, why 2 different FSs? Frank Hallett
Bill6152  
#3 Posted : 31 January 2014 13:36:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bill6152

Thanks Frank We have a couple of sites in UK so diffrent fire servces
bob youel  
#4 Posted : 31 January 2014 13:39:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

The fire service puts people first and insurers [in my personal view] put property first so its up to you- If you have a good management system in place then a fire should not start in the first place but that may not bring down your premiums! B
FHS  
#5 Posted : 31 January 2014 13:53:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
FHS

Bill, Although the FSO does refer to training, it is still down to organisations to determine the level and type of training which in turn will fall out of your fire risk assessments. Our advice to staff re fighting fires is to raise the alarm - start to evacuate - only consider fighting fires if your only route out of the building is blocked by a fire. This is in line with the type and location of our extinguishers which are primarily along fire routes and adjacent to fire exits. We cover this requirement by informing staff on the safe use of extinguishers during general fire safety training, but we do not do any practical or "hands on" training with extinguishers. The exception to this is in our higher risk areas such as garage workshops, where staff will receive "hands on" training in the use of appropriate extinguishers. Another consideration is cost of hands on training, refresher training, and accounting for additional training requirements arising from staff turnover, recruitment etc. You do not specify your workplace, work activities, who is at risk etc, but it may be that your insurers could be convinced that your management arrangements are sufficient. FHS
mssy  
#6 Posted : 01 February 2014 08:51:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Frank Hallett wrote:
First, the FSO makes it crystal clear that if you have FEs on your site, then appropriate training in their use must be provided!
Frank - I will have to disagree with you on this. Although of course your statement is (as usual) absolutely sound advice which I agree with 100%, the FSO is not 'crystal clear' in this matter, nor does it say fire extinguishers = training. Artcle 21 (2) does say training must: * include suitable and sufficient instruction and training on the appropriate precautions and actions to be taken by the employee in order to safeguard himself and other relevant persons * be provided in a manner appropriate to the risk identified by the risk assessment So there is no automatic legal requirement to train staff, unless that is the finding of the FRA The debate continues.........................
lisar  
#7 Posted : 01 February 2014 14:04:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lisar

We train only to use defensively as a means of escape
selvinjoe  
#8 Posted : 01 February 2014 15:01:31(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
selvinjoe

Providing basic fire fighting training to all at the work place (Offshore - T-BOSIET covers this also) is a wise idea.A quick initial response makes all differences.
Bob Shillabeer  
#9 Posted : 02 February 2014 20:15:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Hi Guys, not had much chance to post anything lately. In the last job I had as a Business Systems Advisor for an important office based organisation of about three hundred people in a seven story building I recomended no one be trained in the correct use of a fire extinguisher but to emphasis the correct way of evacuating the premises and leave any fire to the pros the fire service. I had training many years ago on how to use a extinguisher including water, foam and co2 and still fuklly understand how to use them but would rather escape than use one. The advice I was given is unless it is needed to establish an escape route simply evacuate all people from the premises as building can be repalced but lives are very precious and you only get one of those.
Dave Beddis  
#10 Posted : 03 February 2014 10:03:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dave Beddis

Hi All, I agree with Bob that it is more important to get people out from buildings safely by means of evacuation plan. When I advise students that is exactly what I tell them. You will not fight fires with extinguishers unless they are very small. They are positioned to aid your escape. I would still train people to use extinguishers as it shows how important the evacuation plan is when the extinguisher runs out after 30 seconds.
paul-ps  
#11 Posted : 03 February 2014 12:29:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
paul-ps

Fire extinguishers are there to enable escape and need to be used and whatever people are told about evacuating the building, people will use them anyway - so get them trained.
A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 03 February 2014 14:02:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Agree with Bob and others- tell people to get out and only to use fire extinguishers if trained and confident in their use. There is no expectation for our staff to actively fight the fire. In all of the fire alarms that have happened here, nobody has ever run into a room wielding and extinguisher saying, “where is the fire?” .They all get out as soon as possible and wait at the assembly points.
paul-ps  
#13 Posted : 03 February 2014 14:14:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
paul-ps

And in my experience of actual live fires people do grab the extinguisher and have a go.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.