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Frank Hallett  
#1 Posted : 14 February 2014 11:00:15(UTC)
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Frank Hallett

walker  
#2 Posted : 14 February 2014 11:19:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

What exactly stops it happening in the UK today?

All you need is an employer not to bother with Emp liability Insurance and than declare bankruptcy after an accident.
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 14 February 2014 11:59:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

No the issue in the UK is that the employer has a general duty of care both in civil law and in criminal law. Not just H&S law but now also corporate manslaughter. In cases like this the fines that could be levied are unlimited. British judges have stated that in some circumstances a fine that leads to a company being wound is appropriate.
Yes something like this could happen here but with the current systems in place it is unlikely.
Of course if the current programme of cutting ‘red tape’ contines this might change.
Phil Grace  
#4 Posted : 14 February 2014 12:30:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Dfficult to understand the basis of the case.

There is no EL in the USA as we know. I'm guessing that there was a WC payout and the families then went to court - and won. Not sure what insurance, if any, the firm would have to cover losing, having to pay compensation etc. Thus, if there is no policy in force I imagine the firm can take the line described and seek to appeal the decision.

That wouldn't happen in the UK since first there is EL and when compensation is sought by an injured person the EL insurer "stands in front" of the employer. Compensation is negotiated (only c6-8% of cases end up in court) and so appealing isn't something that happens.

Phil
walker  
#5 Posted : 14 February 2014 12:30:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Dear A.K.

I don't really need a lecture in what theoretically could happen, but thanks.

In reality there have been many employers who have caused deaths and have just walked away.

Additionally, corporate manslaughter so far has only worked where small simple companies are involved
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 14 February 2014 13:34:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

If you read the article it says “prosecutors at both local and federal levels declined to pursue the cases criminally, something she’d (the mother of one of the dead boys) like to see changed.”
It is because no legal action was taken by the prosecutors that the families brought the civil case.
I cannot believe that there would any circumstances in which the HSE would not prosecute such a blatant case even if the business was to go into liquidation. In addition they could prosecute the individual managers under section 36 or 37, and manslaughter charges (both corporate and individual) would be a string possibility.
These are things which do not happen under the supposedly business friendly administration of H&S they have in the states.
The average fine for non-compliance there is I believe about $1000, here its about £20000.
jay  
#7 Posted : 14 February 2014 14:01:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

gramsay  
#8 Posted : 17 February 2014 10:42:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

A 14 year old. Above all the failures in training and planning, this is what stands out for me unfortunately.

As a retained firefighter I went to a fair few jobs on farms and while attitudes to things like guarding and flammable gas storage could sometimes raise an eyebrow, farmers always seemed to have respect for the dangers of silos and grain dryers. I hope we would never be in a situation where it was culturally acceptable to have children working in these. What a horrible, pointless tragedy.
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