Rank: New forum user 
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Hi,
In a recent Safety Walkdown our client got very upset with a painter mixing a 10 litre flammable liquid 3 paint and hardener about 2 meters away from a boiler maker grinding.
This was out in the open air offshore with moderate winds that day. Working offshore has its difficulties with space and having various trades working in close proximity. This was not a paint storage area and he was only mixing enough paint for his task that day. Was mixed in a portable bund with no leaks.
My question was thou would the vapours from this mixing been within a flammable range when mixed with air and then have the ability to travel 2 meters to an ignition source (grinder) given the amount of natural ventilation between the two trades (2m).
I believe if I stood next to the painter with a gas detector the readings would have been zero given the ventilation.
What would be your separation distance for this interface task? (Outside in open air). Its offshore you cant send one trade to the other end of the site due to real estate issues, storage of equipment and materials everywhere and the need to have both trades working within the area.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would agree that the spread of vapours was unlikely to be the issue, with the windspeed/ventilation that was likely to be present.
I think the issue is more that the sparks from the grinding might have been projected into the open paint tin.
Very difficult to say, as such to whether it was tuly dangerous - but as we know, the consequences could have been serious.
The separation distance should have been sufficiently far away from the grinder, so the hot sparks don't reach the painter.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I am staggerred, having worked in the chemical industry and higher tier COMAH sites for 20 years. This sort of thing is easily controlled by a Permit To Work / Hot Work Permit system. Simple fact is that flammable mats and hot work don't go together. I would have stopped both jobs in an instant.
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Rank: Super forum user
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With the limited information provided, my take on this is that first and foremost, there is a breakdown in the Client's system when both parties were working at the same time, apparently without a permit to work that would have considered the risks & controls etc. You refer to Offshore, but do not elaborate on the type/nature of the "installation"/"facility"?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I suspect the likelihood of ignition was probably low. However, I cannot see any good reason why these two activities would be carried out at the same time in such close proximity. If the painter could not move the grinder should have stopped.
It is well worth noting that Piper Alpha probably started due to a very modest release of volatile liquid (hydrocarbon condensate). It could have been as low as 10 or 20kg.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I will not answer your question because it should not have been asked in the first place.
Had the painter considered the potential hazards/risks?
Are there written instructions for doing such work?
Training required for all parties including supervisors/managers to avoid the potential for disaster here.
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Rank: New forum user
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FireSafety101 wrote:I will not answer your question because it should not have been asked in the first place.
Had the painter considered the potential hazards/risks?
Are there written instructions for doing such work?
Training required for all parties including supervisors/managers to avoid the potential for disaster here. Sorry which part of the question are you not answering? A hot work permit was in place for the grinder as part of the checklist it asks to identify nearby flammable sources however it doesn't specify separation distance. The answer I was looking for was specifically about vapours being in a flammable range which could cause ignition given the natural ventilation in area, I'm not accepting the task as safe practice just wondering was there any immediate risk at that time under them circumstances of that vapour igniting, sparks would not reach the paint more the vapour travelling to the ignition source, but as said this was in open air with winds present.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Apology accepted, you do know what part I'm not answering?
In my opinion if everyone waited to see what would happen if they ignored a written instruction and then tried asking the questions like you are, then there would soon be nobody left to ask?
Think about it.
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