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Mr Insurance  
#1 Posted : 11 June 2014 08:50:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr Insurance

If a client with passenger lifts has a contract with their insurer to carry our Passenger Lift inspections every 6 months, but for whatever reason, the inspections are carried out more than 6 months apart, would the enforcing authority grant them any leeway? In the real world, would a few weeks slippage on timescales be accepted as an unfortunate situation due to the lack of qualified inspectors or similar?
teh_boy  
#2 Posted : 11 June 2014 09:04:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Quote from the regs: http://www.legislation.g...8/2307/regulation/9/made (3) Subject to paragraph (6), every employer SHALL ensure that lifting equipment which is exposed to conditions causing deterioration which is liable to result in dangerous situations is— (a)thoroughly examined— (i)in the case of lifting equipment for lifting persons or an accessory for lifting, AT LEAST every 6 months; (ii)in the case of other lifting equipment, at least every 12 months; I put the key words in caps - these are absolute duties. No inspection = prosecutable IMHO. So short answer - no.
grim72  
#3 Posted : 11 June 2014 10:20:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

I'd agree with the above post by teh boy, but in a real world it is a bit non-sensicle really. Im not a fan of any 6 month inspection, after all you could inspect it today, an unreported incident could happen tomorrow and it goes 6 months before anyone checks it again? Accidents don't tend to wait until the 6 monthe period is coming to an end unfortunately - if only life was that predictable eh? :-)
JJ Prendergast  
#4 Posted : 11 June 2014 10:31:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

As with many things, its a matter of risk & degree of a breach. More likely to get an Improvement Notice, to comply. Continued non-compliance then prosecution as a final resort.
Waz  
#5 Posted : 12 June 2014 07:36:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Waz

Whilst LOLER states 6 monthly, I think the term reasonably practicable comes to mind. Think in terms of the number of items you have that need the STE to be conducted in a timeframe, is it feasible that everything will be tested in 1 day?? Personally speaking, I believe the reasonableness of the inspection can be taken to a small time period of opportunity - 2 weeks after (imho); though, pre-use checks are key too, these still need to be done - this will determine from a visual point of view the equipment's/accessory's ability to conduct the job safely - and this would be done by a competent person!!
walker  
#6 Posted : 12 June 2014 09:01:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

This is not too different to my car MOT I'm not worried about the police nicking me for not having a valid cert, I get it done before the 12 months are up because: The MOT gives me some assurance my car is free from serious defects Without the MOT my expensive insurance policy is worthless I don't leave the re-test till the last moment as it causes more hassle than its worth Getting your "full moneys worth" by running exactly to the legal deadline is a fools game.
walker  
#7 Posted : 12 June 2014 09:07:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Waz, You can't apply reasonably practicable to an absolute duty
aland76  
#8 Posted : 12 June 2014 10:43:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

Indg339 expands on 'The Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations 1998' with the following excerpt: "As an alternative to thorough examinations at statutory intervals, the competent person may draw up an ‘examination scheme’. The scheme may specify periods which are different from the statutory intervals, but this must be based on a rigorous assessment of the risks. An examination scheme may be particularly appropriate if you have a lift which is used infrequently for light loads." The way I read this is if you have an examination scheme drawn up by a suitably competent person it can stipulate longer thorough examination intervals, happy to be proven wrong though
jwk  
#9 Posted : 12 June 2014 10:59:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Not attempting to challenge Walker's comments about the absolute nature of the duty, he is quite correct. It does however lead to some complications. I used to work for a care charity, and they have numerous hoists with associated tackle for lifting people, very sensitive from a LOLER perspective, as people are killed every year by hoist/sling failures in health and social care settings. The complication is, what does an organisation do when the people contracted to inspect fail to turn up on time? In the winter of 2010 one of their premises had 12 feet of snow in the drive; the hoist engineers couldn't get to the building and by the time they could were so behind that the checks ended up being nearly six weeks late. Not defensible in court maybe, but it's hard to see what we could have done about it, John
teh_boy  
#10 Posted : 13 June 2014 09:55:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

jwk wrote:
Not defensible in court maybe, John
Yes it is - Necessity is a valid defence! And lets go for a top source to back up my claim :) http://en.wikipedia.org/...Necessity_in_English_law
jwk  
#11 Posted : 13 June 2014 10:12:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Well, ot quote from the same top source 'There must be an urgent and immediate threat to life which creates a situation in which the defendant reasonably believes that a proportionate response to that threat is to break the law', not sure if a snow-bound drive creates an immediate and urgent threat to life ;-) John
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