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MrsBlue  
#1 Posted : 19 June 2014 12:16:11(UTC)
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From a breakfast meeting held on Tuesday 17 June - taken from News on IOSH Home Page “All responsible companies are involved in wellbeing programmes but I do feel we are scratching the surface. We should be aware these are increasingly important issues and should look to best practice around the world.” Mr Barradell said: “The truth of this is the ability of an organisation to reduce sickness and maintain staff in good health is worth the investment. “The time is right 40 years on to make the switch from the safety to the health aspect.” Do you agree with Mr Barradell's statement about switching? - because I don't. You can be the fittest person in the world both mentally and physically and still have an accident due to bad safety. Rich
jay  
#2 Posted : 19 June 2014 12:31:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

It would be better to take it into context --after all, what you read was just a small snippet of the whole presentation . It is true that the emphasis is mostly on " occupational safety" and less on the "occupational health" aspect. "Well-being", as I understand it, is much more than "occupational health" as majority of sickness absence in many organisations is not work related! Sickness absence and its costs are related to the overall health & well-being of individuals. Obviously, the employer cannot control what is outside work, but can facilitate aspects that can support "well-being". Also, I very much doubt that there is any implication that "safety" should be "ignored"
Steve e ashton  
#3 Posted : 19 June 2014 12:58:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

I accept there are business benefits in promoting healthy lifestyle choices, and that for many organisations, the 'health and safety person' (and environment, security, quality etc etc) may be the only person with any knowledge or inclination to develop and implement appropriate measures. However - I do not feel that health promotion (as opposed to health surveillance and health screening) is necessarily 'Occupational' health issue. The 'O' IOSH stands for occupational - we may risk diluting core service delivery if we are diverted into something else..... Although again I have to agree there may be greater benefits in having a generally healthy workforce....
MrsBlue  
#4 Posted : 19 June 2014 13:18:44(UTC)
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I agree it is better to have a healthy workforce leading to less time off from 'non-work' health and safety issues. BUT, it is not my place to tell the CEO or the Chairman of the Board of Trustees that they are grossly overweight and thus setting a bad example to the rest of the workforce. Or every other manager/worker not at their workstation because they are in the designated smoking area (now there's a health issue which employers have to kow- tow too - otherwise its called discrimination of the right to choose and you can just hear the jingle jangle of £lots going into another solicitors pocket and the bank account of the worker involved). So which healthy wellbeing subjects are going to be promoted and which will be left alone because the law gives every individual the right to choose? Indeed, it is not my place to question the lifestyle of any worker unless it impacts on their ability to carry out their job. I feel IOSH will be accused of "nannying" if they promote this idea. Rich
bob youel  
#5 Posted : 19 June 2014 13:42:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

whilst workers are as cheap as they are we will not really progress in most cases
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 19 June 2014 14:05:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I also have concerns about the growth in “well-being” which is as has been pointed out is more than just occupational health. Promoting a healthy life style is seen by many organisations as a cheap way of projecting a positive company image both within the workforce and outwards without having to spend too much money. All that is required is an “event” to be launched every few months and everybody told to attend and nod in agreement. These events often come in a box all ready to be delivered and they deliver the standard generic message to the work force that ill health is due to their bad life style choices and that it is upto them to do something about it. This is much cheaper than the hard core ‘elf and safety’ stuff which involves actually managing the workplace and sometimes shock horror investing money in staff and equipment and even changing policies and procedures.
jay  
#7 Posted : 19 June 2014 14:08:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

"Well Being" requires upfront thinking and in my view is more HR led, although due to some occupational health related matters, the " Health & Safety" person could be involved. In our case, well being promoted, all being VOLUNTARY/OPTIONAL by:- 1) health checks at company expense. The frequency is based on age banding (every 5 yrs for under 40, 2 yrs from 40 to 50 and annual for those over 50. The type of checks done are also voluntary, but most go for the full check. There is some "ADVICE" provided from the service provider, if aspects exceed "norms" 2) site based seasonal flu jabs paid for by the company, in company time--about 50% of the 400 site personnel sign up to this. 3) subsidised gym membership--as we do not have the space to have a gym on site 4) a wide range of healthy options served in the site restaurant The challenge is how the campaign is run. It need not be "nannying" if thought out & implemented appropriately. Yes, there always will be a small minority, irrespective how carefully a campaign is run who will moan/whinge, but if the majority are positively affected, then it may be worth it. The health aspect, is about "supporting/managing " staff when they return to work, even if the cause is not work-related--mostly supported by HR, but Health & Safety involvement when the individual cannot carry out all the normal tasks/activities. In such cases, the Occupational Health Service provider provides advice/ input for the medical aspects.
MrsBlue  
#8 Posted : 19 June 2014 14:41:45(UTC)
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Guest

Jay You obviously work for a large company - the SME's just can't afford the luxury of what you describe (exceptions to every rule of course) - except perhaps the annual flu jab which like your firm is taken up by just about or under 50% of the workforce. As I said and was echo'd by Kurdsiel leave well alone IOSH. Rich
Evans38004  
#9 Posted : 19 June 2014 15:02:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans38004

ref: Jay 50% of 400 site personnel sign up for flu jabs: NHS recommend flu jabs if •you're aged 65 or over •you're pregnant •you have a serious medical condition •you live in a residential or nursing home •you're the main carer for an elderly or disabled person whose welfare may be at risk if you fall ill •your child is in an at-risk group and is aged six months to two years. I appears that you are paying for something not really required - could the money be better spent elsewhere? + I was told that the at risk persons can get the jabs for free on the NHS (or is that Wales only). We employ 173 but do not have a canteen - so our healthy option is don't eat food here + work hard = healthy, fit bodies (I wish) Others Unless you are in a cash rich company - can you prove "wellness" to your senior team that this is worthwhile - I would struggle. Moreover, is there a risk that managers who have limited departmental budgets would employ fitter, younger people to avoid the costs of implementing nice-to-do company promotion
jay  
#10 Posted : 19 June 2014 15:53:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Regarding IOSH's position on this subject, it is nothing new and IOSH has been contributing to the debate for quite some time, inlcludng responses to various consultations on this topic:- http://www.iosh.co.uk/en...nd%20resources/Wellbeing There have been several in depth reports, based on evidence regarding the connection between health, work and well-being:- https://www.gov.uk/gover...ng-evidence-and-research Regarding Flu jabs, for us, it becomes cost effective even if that prevents full blown flu and at least a weeks, i.e. 5 working days sickness absence for 10 employees as an average The fact that the NHS has not included in the recommendation the "fit" ones, does not mean that they will not get seasonal flu--It is primarily for prioritising NHS resources that are stretched. Already, the flu jabs, over time, as its programme rolls out, all children between the ages of two and 16 will be vaccinated against flu each year with the nasal spray. http://www.nhs.uk/Condit...s/child-flu-vaccine.aspx
Steve e ashton  
#11 Posted : 20 June 2014 09:35:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

The gumnt spent all that money on Tamiflu after the sales evangelists hid the evidence of the pharma company responsible... Is there any evidence (and I cannot now accept much the pharma company says...) that flu jabs work? I know its not scientific but my parents both had the jab - and both suffered nasty side effects. My mam went on to develop pneumonia after a bout of flu... So I will take a lot of convincing that this is a sensible use of my employer's (ot the guvnmnt) resources. ..
A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 20 June 2014 10:04:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Flu vaccination DOES WORK but it has to be the correct strain of vaccine matching the current outbreak of flu. The flu virus continuously mutates so it is quite possible to be given the 'wrong' vaccine. It takes months to produce the vaccine and the supplier have to make an educated guess as to what strain of virus will be present during a winter outbreak. They sometimes get it wrong. Any vaccine can produce a side reaction in some people. Again there is no way to test for this but with those vaccines that are licensed it is extremely unlikely and generally worth the risk. As well as protecting individuals, vaccines also create 'herd' immunity ie provide protection for the whole community.
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