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A client has asked me whether alongside the portaloo a tent could be used for changing facilities etc. As the O2 is a tent perhaps it is OK ??
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Sounds like a small project with a 'thunderbox' on site..... might look a bit silly next to the O2. Also, nice to see the Client placing such value on the welfare facilities for the workforce!
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I agree but then the emphasis is not on the Client under CDM for Welfare.
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Is this "tent" going to meet the requirements of Schedule 2 of the CDM Regs. I doubt it very much.
Show your Client the requirements of schedule 2 and let them make their own minds up as to whether the tent complies. It`s their funeral if they permit works to commence.
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BJC wrote:I agree but then the emphasis is not on the Client under CDM for Welfare. Sorry what ? A client has a legal duty not to permit works to commence on site unless adequate welfare facilities are in place. One of the main client duties under CDM.
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paulw71 wrote:BJC wrote:I agree but then the emphasis is not on the Client under CDM for Welfare. Sorry what ? A client has a legal duty not to permit works to commence on site unless adequate welfare facilities are in place. One of the main client duties under CDM. It would be nice I agree but they do not and the schedule you refer to just doesnt mention anything preclusive about temporary structures.
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BJC wrote:paulw71 wrote:BJC wrote:I agree but then the emphasis is not on the Client under CDM for Welfare. Sorry what ? A client has a legal duty not to permit works to commence on site unless adequate welfare facilities are in place. One of the main client duties under CDM. It would be nice I agree but they do not and the schedule you refer to just doesnt mention anything preclusive about temporary structures. Sorry mate but you dont know what your on about. Regulation 9, 1- Every client shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the arrangements made for managing a project by persons with a duty under these regulations are suitable to ensure that- B) the requirements of Schedule 2 are complied with in respect of any person carrying out construction work.
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paulw71 wrote:Is this "tent" going to meet the requirements of Schedule 2 of the CDM Regs. I doubt it very much. What part of schedule 2 cannot be provided in a tent? I note that the OP specifies the tent is in addition to the portaloo, so the only thing I see a difficulty with providing in a tent, being the provision of locking doors on toilet cubicles, is not relevant - those doors are on the portaloo units. So items 1 to 3 are provided by the portaloo units. 4 to 15 can be provided in a tent, except for 5a which is already provided in the portaloo. It rather depends on the tent in question - the armies of the world manage to put air-conditioned modern operating theatres in tents: http://www.army-technolo...ls/utilis2/utilis21.html
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Might struggle a little to keep the heat in, security might be a bit of an issue if CDM boundary breached (plant keys, laptops etc.) and the 'type 1' flooring might be difficult to keep clean. To be honest, if you're gonna pay for a marqee, you may as well hire a cabin - like the rest of the industry!
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Finish this sentence.
"Don't feed the ......."
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peter gotch wrote:Finish this sentence.
"Don't feed the ......." Very professional Pierre however moving on Due to para 83 what Clients dont have to do is provide welfare facilities complicates matters placing the main onus on the PC unlike Asbestos surveys for instance. I have never come across a Client catching a fine / prosecution for Welfare in several hundred projects. Still cant get through to a Construction Inspector.
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Then again the whole thread might just be a joke posting....
JJP
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OK, I'm lost - who's Pierre? BJC, how big is this site (how many workers/contractors - peak)?
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20 weeks maximum and 5 people on site at most. As mentioned Portaloo and generator provided and large tent being mooted for canteen / changing facilities etc within heras fenced compound.
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20 week project and a thunderbox - that's pretty primitive IMO!
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I agree but then so is cutting out the Courts in the pursuit of Madam Justice. However we are still no nearer the answer to the original question.
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I'm sure you have thought of this but 20 weeks is 5 months starting now takes you to the end of November. Allowable or not seems a bit harsh to make people change in a tent in November. Thinking about it using a portaloo may not be that pleasant. May be hard to justify the facilities are suitable.
Comment not meant in any form of malice.
Chris
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quote=BJC]I agree but then so is cutting out the Courts in the pursuit of Madam Justice. However we are still no nearer the answer to the original question. BJC, I'm not sure there is a definitive answer. The majority of the postings think providing a tent is not suitable. I tend to agree because I cannot see why a tent is preferred over the traditional porta cabins. For a 20 week project I think it is not unreasonable to provide robust welfare facilities. The acid test is whether you could justify the use of a tent to a visiting HSE inspector...I would love to hear that conversation - LOL!
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Not really the actions of a good employer.
Not so sure I can take the post too seriously.
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Portaloo has washing facilities with generator. It would have been nice to have gotten through to an HSE Inspector; however whilst I have resisted the Tent as long as it is waterproof actually I cannot see anything in the legislation to prevent it.
Anyway I had a thoroughly good knees up in a Beer tent this weekend.
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Did you look at the link I posted
Every site should have arrangements for securely storing personal clothing not worn on site and for protective clothing needed for site work. Men and women should be able to change separately. Separate lockers might be needed, although on smaller sites the site office may be a suitable storage area provided it is kept secure. Where there is a risk of protective site clothing contaminating everyday clothing, items should be stored separately. Provision should be made to allow wet clothing to be dried. As a general rule clothing should not be placed directly on heaters due to the risk of fire. If electrical heaters are used, they should be properly ventilated and, if possible, fitted with a high temperature cut-out device. Rest facilities Rest facilities should provide shelter from wind and rain. The rest facilities should have adequate numbers of tables, seating with backs, a means for heating water for drinks and for warming up food (eg a gas or electrical heating ring or microwave oven) and be adequately heated. Rest areas are not to be used to store plant, equipment or materials.
Is that still a tent?
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Previous job. The 'section yards' had all mod cons. The actual build sites were anything up to twenty miles distant, often inaccessible by road or track (helicopters used for materials) in remote, exposed, isolated uplands. Yes, we 'allowed' tents to provide shelter on site. At some sites it was the only way we could ensure there was any refuge from the weather. At many many others (where it was physically possible) we built access tracks (at huge expense) to get men and materials in - and the on site facilities were correspondingly wheeled units. Portaloos / thunderboxes aye, when we could get them close enough. Even helicoptered a couple of portaloos at one site. But please accept that what works in one location may not work in all locations, and what is 'allowable' will depend on the actual circumstances. One size does not fit all.
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Confused can you not have lockers in a tent or heating / drying facilities; I take it you are not a member of the Camping and Caravanning Club ? tony. wrote:Did you look at the link I posted
Every site should have arrangements for securely storing personal clothing not worn on site and for protective clothing needed for site work. Men and women should be able to change separately. Separate lockers might be needed, although on smaller sites the site office may be a suitable storage area provided it is kept secure. Where there is a risk of protective site clothing contaminating everyday clothing, items should be stored separately. Provision should be made to allow wet clothing to be dried. As a general rule clothing should not be placed directly on heaters due to the risk of fire. If electrical heaters are used, they should be properly ventilated and, if possible, fitted with a high temperature cut-out device. Rest facilities Rest facilities should provide shelter from wind and rain. The rest facilities should have adequate numbers of tables, seating with backs, a means for heating water for drinks and for warming up food (eg a gas or electrical heating ring or microwave oven) and be adequately heated. Rest areas are not to be used to store plant, equipment or materials.
Is that still a tent?
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Not to be taken too seriously, I think.
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Can't see a HSE inspector being too impressed. Would he/she treat it as a joke?
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