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happybluebuddha  
#1 Posted : 27 June 2014 12:11:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
happybluebuddha

A Friday smirk.....

I have recently written a procedure on how to tackle spills of chemicals/dusty materials and circulated it for comment. I got it back with a comment from one of the managers to say that I had not indicated how spills of teas/coffees in the canteen should be dealt with. I can assure you this was a serious comment because I spoke to her about it to find out if she meant it. Her reply is that if it happens at work, employees should be given instructions on what to do. Yes, health and safety has gone mad.

Spilling tears!
Owen24  
#2 Posted : 27 June 2014 12:15:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Owen24

My MD once asked me whether we should put a report in for an employee who had an accident at home and was going to be off for awhile. I was speechless
simplesafety  
#3 Posted : 27 June 2014 14:56:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
simplesafety

We were once asked for a risk assessment for walking up/steps and walking around the site - we are a SME manufacturers with about 10 steps on site - not an oil rig. This came from an ambulance chaser solicoters who were trying to put inject some fear to a case.
decimomal  
#4 Posted : 27 June 2014 15:12:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

But.....

what would happen in the event that somebody slipped on a wet floor in the canteen and sustained an injury?

HSE/EHO might investigate and the injured person may claim for damages, so either way the employer would be looking at 'costs' of the accident.

It is of course about proportionality - you do not say how big the canteen is, but a busy works canteen with a high likelihood of spills would require a more robust system than a 'kitchenette' and controls might include cordoning the affected area (much as would be expected when general cleaning activities). The 'written procedure' might just be the general slips, trips and falls risk assessment and control measures.
There should at least be something in place and we as safety professionals should not be too quick to mock.

Health and Safety gone mad? Not in my view.
SP900308  
#5 Posted : 27 June 2014 15:17:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Happy, pose the same question to a large supermarket chain and see if they take spills seriously.
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 27 June 2014 15:20:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

happybluebuddha wrote:
A Friday smirk.....

I have recently written a procedure on how to tackle spills of chemicals/dusty materials and circulated it for comment. I got it back with a comment from one of the managers to say that I had not indicated how spills of teas/coffees in the canteen should be dealt with. I can assure you this was a serious comment because I spoke to her about it to find out if she meant it. Her reply is that if it happens at work, employees should be given instructions on what to do. Yes, health and safety has gone mad.

Spilling tears!

Years ago someone on our site slipped on a tea/coffee spill in the corridor and was quite seriously injured and did what people who have to sit with their feet up all day do, namely watch daytime TV and saw one of those “Have you been injured at work…?” adverts. So they sued us and got some compo. Our CEO at the time went ape and was all for banning people taking tea and coffee back to their offices. It was pointed out that this was an infringement of their rights as natural born Englishmen (which are higher than just Human Rights) and so we agreed to supply each and every employee with a logoed lidded mug for transporting their drinks about the site.
Has the world gone mad? No I don’t think it was sane to begin with!

Tigers  
#7 Posted : 27 June 2014 15:58:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tigers

Apparently, there is a level above the rights of an Englishman, these have a battle cry of "how much" and have a national day on August 1.

Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 30 June 2014 12:27:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

HSE and your Manager are taking slips,trips and falls seriously. You should too.
stonecold  
#9 Posted : 30 June 2014 12:31:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Should always have a process in place to manage spills that could result in slips.

Its not unusal for a slip or trip to result in broken bones.
Jake  
#10 Posted : 30 June 2014 12:37:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

You don't need an RA / procedure on clearing spills of hot drinks specifically, but what you should have is a spillage policy / procedure that details how spills (of any kind) are managed - this would include tea / coffee and anything else!

Whilst it may sound farcical on the surface, the good H&S professional will praise the line manager for being risk aware, whilst providing a steer on what’s reasonable for the situation (e.g. that a stand lone procedure is not needed, but these types of spills should and will be dealt with in line with the general policy!).
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 30 June 2014 13:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Jake wrote:
You don't need an RA / procedure on clearing spills of hot drinks specifically, but what you should have is a spillage policy / procedure that details how spills (of any kind) are managed - this would include tea / coffee and anything else!

Whilst it may sound farcical on the surface, the good H&S professional will praise the line manager for being risk aware, whilst providing a steer on what’s reasonable for the situation (e.g. that a stand lone procedure is not needed, but these types of spills should and will be dealt with in line with the general policy!).

My original posting was bit facetious as it was Friday and the greater law requires that this is so but the incident did unearth a culture amongst some staff that H&S is what someone else does; not them. When we investigate the slip incident I mentioned in my previous posting, one person (a manager who should have known better) said “Oh yes I remember that coffee spill…I thought someone might slip on it.” I then asked the £20 000 question “What did you do about it?” The answer that came back was “Nothing, it’s not my job to deal with spills”
This is why the CEO went ape.
So as well as supplying mugs we have an arrangement that means a cleaner will attend a spill within 10 minutes on site and that ALL staff must at least report spillages straight away.
We have not had an incident like that since then.

jodieclark1510  
#12 Posted : 30 June 2014 22:01:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

The last place I worked for, we didn't have a specific risk assessment for spilling drinks but it was included in our general office activities assessment because it was possible. Slips, trips and falls can ruin lives as much as falling off the top of a ladder, and therefore should be taken seriously.
firesafety101  
#13 Posted : 30 June 2014 22:58:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

About ten years ago I moved to a company that had recently refurbished their offices and installed fire doors. The door from office to kitchen opened in that direction of travel therefore it opened against anyone coming from the kitchen.

The lady who made the tea on one occasion was carrying a full tray of coffee and tea and as she was about to open the door toward her while holding the tray on one hand somebody went in the opposite direction and smashed the door into her, she dropped the tray with all the mugs and made one heck of a mess.

She was alright although slightly dazed by the whole experience.

I asked the MD for vision panels in some of the fire doors to prevent a re-occurrence but he said no.

What we ended up with was a shelf on the kitchen side of the fire door so the tea lady could place the tea tray on the shelf, far enough away from the door to avoid collision, then she could open the fire door and place a wooden wedge under to hold it open while she carried the tray through.

I lost count of the number of times I removed the wedge from under the door after that.

paulw71  
#14 Posted : 01 July 2014 09:20:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

FireSafety101 wrote:
About ten years ago I moved to a company that had recently refurbished their offices and installed fire doors. The door from office to kitchen opened in that direction of travel therefore it opened against anyone coming from the kitchen.

The lady who made the tea on one occasion was carrying a full tray of coffee and tea and as she was about to open the door toward her while holding the tray on one hand somebody went in the opposite direction and smashed the door into her, she dropped the tray with all the mugs and made one heck of a mess.

She was alright although slightly dazed by the whole experience.

I asked the MD for vision panels in some of the fire doors to prevent a re-occurrence but he said no.

What we ended up with was a shelf on the kitchen side of the fire door so the tea lady could place the tea tray on the shelf, far enough away from the door to avoid collision, then she could open the fire door and place a wooden wedge under to hold it open while she carried the tray through.

I lost count of the number of times I removed the wedge from under the door after that.




Trolley ?
Invictus  
#15 Posted : 01 July 2014 14:21:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

#6 I am sure tha point about being a right was tongue in cheek. Why do they need to take tea back to thier workplace that is why you have to give them a rest room away from work.
A Kurdziel  
#16 Posted : 01 July 2014 16:24:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Invictus wrote:
#6 I am sure tha point about being a right was tongue in cheek. Why do they need to take tea back to thier workplace that is why you have to give them a rest room away from work.

Tea is no joking matter!
In the civil service- for that is what we are- there has long been a tradition of taking tea at one's desk this being facilitated by the tea lady with her trolley. These ladies have now long gone so staff go to a tea point and bring the tea/coffee back to their desks. This is not an issue in most government buildings as they tend to have carpeted floors which absorb the occasional spill. Our buildings also contain labs and carpeted flooring is not appropriate. The easy to wipe vinyl flooring that we have been using is exorremely slippery when even a small amount of liquid is spilt on it, which is why we have had the problems in the past.
Invictus  
#17 Posted : 01 July 2014 20:02:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

still if the only thing you have to worry about is spilt tea then you must be happy. To say tea is no joke and then put the civil service and tea trolleys it is not the spilt tea it is the fact the the 'weve always done it like this' culture still exists. The same as roofers, builders,etc. if tea is such a big problem you need to look at changing it to a safer system. Like I said a rest area away from your desk as per the requirements of the Welfare regs>
firesafety101  
#18 Posted : 01 July 2014 22:04:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

paulw71 wrote:
FireSafety101 wrote:
About ten years ago I moved to a company that had recently refurbished their offices and installed fire doors. The door from office to kitchen opened in that direction of travel therefore it opened against anyone coming from the kitchen.

The lady who made the tea on one occasion was carrying a full tray of coffee and tea and as she was about to open the door toward her while holding the tray on one hand somebody went in the opposite direction and smashed the door into her, she dropped the tray with all the mugs and made one heck of a mess.

She was alright although slightly dazed by the whole experience.

I asked the MD for vision panels in some of the fire doors to prevent a re-occurrence but he said no.

What we ended up with was a shelf on the kitchen side of the fire door so the tea lady could place the tea tray on the shelf, far enough away from the door to avoid collision, then she could open the fire door and place a wooden wedge under to hold it open while she carried the tray through.

I lost count of the number of times I removed the wedge from under the door after that.




Trolley ?


Opening fire door into a travelling trolley could result in a fractured wrist or broken nose methinks?
A Kurdziel  
#19 Posted : 02 July 2014 10:09:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Invictus wrote:
still if the only thing you have to worry about is spilt tea then you must be happy. To say tea is no joke and then put the civil service and tea trolleys it is not the spilt tea it is the fact the the 'weve always done it like this' culture still exists. The same as roofers, builders,etc. if tea is such a big problem you need to look at changing it to a safer system. Like I said a rest area away from your desk as per the requirements of the Welfare regs>

I don't worry about spilt tea anymore but slips trips and falls in the outside areas are still a problem. We do have tea rooms etc but people prefer to stay at their desks hence the transporting liquids issue. I suppose we could ban eating and drinking at desks but has anybody else done that? I don’t think so.
I need to get back to the easy stuff now: cyanide and how to store it!

Lawlee45239  
#20 Posted : 02 July 2014 10:10:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

happybluebuddha wrote:
A Friday smirk.....

I have recently written a procedure on how to tackle spills of chemicals/dusty materials and circulated it for comment. I got it back with a comment from one of the managers to say that I had not indicated how spills of teas/coffees in the canteen should be dealt with. I can assure you this was a serious comment because I spoke to her about it to find out if she meant it. Her reply is that if it happens at work, employees should be given instructions on what to do. Yes, health and safety has gone mad.

Spilling tears!

Lawlee45239  
#21 Posted : 02 July 2014 10:12:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

Lawlee45239 wrote:
happybluebuddha wrote:
A Friday smirk.....

I have recently written a procedure on how to tackle spills of chemicals/dusty materials and circulated it for comment. I got it back with a comment from one of the managers to say that I had not indicated how spills of teas/coffees in the canteen should be dealt with. I can assure you this was a serious comment because I spoke to her about it to find out if she meant it. Her reply is that if it happens at work, employees should be given instructions on what to do. Yes, health and safety has gone mad.

Spilling tears!



Where does it stop? Do you then write a procedure on how to make the tea/coffee? How to hold the cup correctly, how to put in the correct amout of milk so you dont burn your mouth.

paulw71  
#22 Posted : 02 July 2014 10:27:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

FireSafety101 wrote:
paulw71 wrote:
FireSafety101 wrote:
About ten years ago I moved to a company that had recently refurbished their offices and installed fire doors. The door from office to kitchen opened in that direction of travel therefore it opened against anyone coming from the kitchen.

The lady who made the tea on one occasion was carrying a full tray of coffee and tea and as she was about to open the door toward her while holding the tray on one hand somebody went in the opposite direction and smashed the door into her, she dropped the tray with all the mugs and made one heck of a mess.

She was alright although slightly dazed by the whole experience.

I asked the MD for vision panels in some of the fire doors to prevent a re-occurrence but he said no.

What we ended up with was a shelf on the kitchen side of the fire door so the tea lady could place the tea tray on the shelf, far enough away from the door to avoid collision, then she could open the fire door and place a wooden wedge under to hold it open while she carried the tray through.

I lost count of the number of times I removed the wedge from under the door after that.




Trolley ?


Opening fire door into a travelling trolley could result in a fractured wrist or broken nose methinks?



Not if you had the foresight and basic sense to be pulling the trolley rather than pushing it.
MikeD81  
#23 Posted : 02 July 2014 10:34:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MikeD81



Where does it stop? Do you then write a procedure on how to make the tea/coffee? How to hold the cup correctly, how to put in the correct amount of milk so you don't burn your mouth.




In the immortal words of Helen Lovejoy: "Won't somebody please think of the children!"
firesafety101  
#24 Posted : 02 July 2014 16:27:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

paulw71 wrote:
FireSafety101 wrote:
paulw71 wrote:
FireSafety101 wrote:
About ten years ago I moved to a company that had recently refurbished their offices and installed fire doors. The door from office to kitchen opened in that direction of travel therefore it opened against anyone coming from the kitchen.

The lady who made the tea on one occasion was carrying a full tray of coffee and tea and as she was about to open the door toward her while holding the tray on one hand somebody went in the opposite direction and smashed the door into her, she dropped the tray with all the mugs and made one heck of a mess.

She was alright although slightly dazed by the whole experience.

I asked the MD for vision panels in some of the fire doors to prevent a re-occurrence but he said no.

What we ended up with was a shelf on the kitchen side of the fire door so the tea lady could place the tea tray on the shelf, far enough away from the door to avoid collision, then she could open the fire door and place a wooden wedge under to hold it open while she carried the tray through.

I lost count of the number of times I removed the wedge from under the door after that.




Trolley ?


Opening fire door into a travelling trolley could result in a fractured wrist or broken nose methinks?



Not if you had the foresight and basic sense to be pulling the trolley rather than pushing it.


Ahaaaaaaa you thought you had me there - I'm thinking about the gentleman who is walking/running in the opposite direction. You can't pull a Fire Door that has to be pushed to open however much you pull the trolley toward the door on the other side.
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