Given that we are in the midst of summer, this seems an odd one, but I'd be interested to know if others have been in a similar situation and what they've done/been told. The reason this has cropped up NOW is because my organisation is involved in a civil claim where a staff member used one of our car-parks at a time the building was overwise closed, slipped on ice and fell & broke her wrist. Our legal advice is that to avoid liability, we should not let staff use car-parks when they are not on official business; if we fail to stop this practice, or issue an instruction but don't enforce it, we would still have to grit the car-parks at weekends. My personal take is that this is probably correct, but that even if staff ignored any instructions and continued to use the car-park (assuming there are no physical barriers to stop them), we would still be liable (at least in part) as it is our premises, we know there's a good chance that people are using it, and therefore we need to ensure safe access/egress. However, if we could demonstrate that we cleared snow/ice as far as is reasonably practicable during working hours, would we still be liable if a blizzard hit at the weekend when no-one would be around to clear it? My initial thoughts as to advice to give are: - issue a notice requesting staff not to use the car-park - use physical barriers where they are available (e.g. lockable security barriers) - ensure that car-parks, SFARP, are kept clear of snow/ice during working hours - including having well stocked grit bins, and adequate PPE - have a risk assessment and guidance in place which demonstrates the actions we take in the event of adverse weather. Any other (sensible) thoughts would be appreciated.

agree SP - sounds like she was on a frolic of her own - not 'at work'. Nothing wrong with letting staff use the car park out of hours - it isn't work time (unless they are returning late from business etc in which case they are still at work). O'Le OLA! But I am thinking 57 not 84?- (Uh-oh! - cpd refresher needed me thinks)

Any claim will be either through the Tort of Negligence or pursuant to the OLA. Either way we are talking about the common law duty of care. Is it reasonable to clear a car park of snow/ice at all times even on weekends? I don't think so. A person using premises outside of normal hours of their own volition and not for work purposes has in my opinion an even weaker claim. If you consider a public car park would it be reasonable to clear snow/ice at all times - no is the simple answer. Many car parks have a sign - no liability will be accepted...this does not absolve the Landlord of all duties but, it does remind the user that they are unlikely to recover any loss or costs incurred and moreover, to be especially careful when leaving belongings, parking, walking, etc.

Indeed, that's why I wrote...'this does not absolve the Landlord of all duties...'

Ian, Maybe your organisation needs to look at the quality of the legal advice that they are getting.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this claim against your company as it may well answer all of the various issues that have been debated so far on this thread, though as often is the case insurance companies will settle without admitting liability so as to avoid prolonged litigation and all the additional costs incurred in defending a claim. So it may never answer any of the thoughts penned here. My first thoughts would be OLA, but HASAWA does set out general duties for both employees and non employees in affording them safe access and egress. Depending on the size of the car park and workforce installing a barriered system may not be cost effective and a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Substitute employee who is not at work with say a delivery driver trying to drop a parcel off when you are shut, or the IT team who have to come in at weekends to carry out essential maintenance on the mainframe, this may not be what happens at your workplace but these are the things I know go on at our offices outside of normal office hours. What's the answer to gritting for that sudden blizzard? I don't have the answer but like some agree we all need to take some personal responsibility too. We can't have standby gritting 24/7 there wouldn't e enough grit to go round if we all had to do this. I would be more concerned about a poorly maintained car park, that had pot holes and uneven paving. We had some advice given to us last winter by some insurers that we should grit the individual footpaths to everyone's property on our housing estates (we are a social landlord) and on all the public footpaths we own if they don't get the sun on them, and where footpaths are on a slope....... I asked if this was reasonably practicable, still waiting on an answer......

Very Good Question!

At post 12 you are correct in stating that you can't sue under HASAWA but you can site a breach of H&S regs in a civil claim for compensation to demonstrate that a breach of statutory duty occurred. Though I think my thoughts were more aimed at the controls going forward that the OP is suggesting and where they would sit. I agree with Canopener's view that this is a 'punt' and that the courts would not view it as reasonable to grit when the property was not in use. But we will wait to see what happens.

Claims under the OLA( both of them) are still being allowed (for the time being!)