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mturt  
#1 Posted : 07 July 2014 10:34:45(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
mturt

We have an employee who returned from sick absence yesterday. He claims he had an accident in April that has caused his absence. We were aware of a hand injury but he has, until now, never mentioned or claimed that his injury was caused at work.

Further to this, he claims he continued to work for 12 days after the accident before he went off sick.

Question is.... If an employee has an accident at work, but continues with his full range of duties, but is absent due to the injury at a later date, would this be reportable??

Thanks
paulw71  
#2 Posted : 07 July 2014 11:15:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

This throws up a few questions.

What was the nature of the initial injury ?

Was the employee aware of the requirement to report his initial injury if caused at work, if so why did he not do this ?

If the employee managed to undertake his work for 12 days prior to going sick I would doubt that this is reportable. He may have aggravated an existing injury that was caused at work thus making it worse resulting in absence however this would not make it reportable.

I am not saying that its impossible for the results of an accident to manifest themselves after a period of time (infections, blood clots etc) but from the information provided this sounds unlikely.

mturt  
#3 Posted : 07 July 2014 11:34:42(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
mturt

Thanks for the reply.

The IP is a driver completing a store delivery. During the course of the delivery, a cage has rolled down the length of his trailer and struck his hand. He claims this has caused tendon and nerve damage in his right hand. He claims he did not report it at the time as he did not think it was a problem, but his condition gradually worsened over the following days until he became unable to work.

He is of course, now subject to a conduct investigation for failing to report a personal injury accident.
paulw71  
#4 Posted : 07 July 2014 11:55:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

In light of the information you have provided I would say it is not reportable.

The employee has not made you aware of the injury at the time and can provide no evidence that this occured at work except his say so.
There is a possibility that he has aggravated a minor injury making it worse, this again could have happened in or out of work.

Unless you want to accept responsibility for an injury that may not even have been work related then personally speaking I would not report.
PIKEMAN  
#5 Posted : 07 July 2014 14:57:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

IMHO not reportable.

I would not even accept it as an accident after that length of time. In my experience of several top notch safety performing organisations, not reported at the time (or very soon after) = no accident. Period.
charlesshava  
#6 Posted : 07 July 2014 15:52:32(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
charlesshava

Gentleman the incident is reportable period. Reporting an incident is not an admission of guilty under RIDDOR. If the employee was offsick for more than seven days and he tells you its work related you report under RIDDOR. RIDDOR does not specify any period gents. All other speculations will follow after complying. What about if the staff was not trained? Where is the line manager here?
paulw71  
#7 Posted : 07 July 2014 16:09:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

charlesshava wrote:
Gentleman the incident is reportable period. Reporting an incident is not an admission of guilty under RIDDOR. If the employee was offsick for more than seven days and he tells you its work related you report under RIDDOR. RIDDOR does not specify any period gents. All other speculations will follow after complying. What about if the staff was not trained? Where is the line manager here?


Nobody said its an admission of guilt. It is however an acknowledgment that the injury was caused by an accident at work which as we have ascertained cannot be demonstrated by the IP.

If you are happy to have every man and his dog coming up to you saying they have been injured at work 2 weeks ago but its all been fine up till now and then going on the sick for a month without a shred of evidence to support the claim then more fool you.
potts2030  
#8 Posted : 07 July 2014 16:26:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
potts2030

Playing devils advocate, if you are investigating him for failing to report an accident, then you are accepting that he had an accident.... therefore riddor reportable.
paulw71  
#9 Posted : 07 July 2014 16:41:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

Potts2030 wrote:
Playing devils advocate, if you are investigating him for failing to report an accident, then you are accepting that he had an accident.... therefore riddor reportable.


Not really.
You are investigating to establish the facts in order to ascertain whether there is a need to report.

As previously noted, even if the incident in question did occur at work the employee continued to work for a further 12 days, and if an injury occurs at work but fails to meet reporting criteria then at a later date is aggravated in a non work situation which results in an period of absence this does not suddenly make the initial accident reportable under RIDDOR.
jwk  
#10 Posted : 08 July 2014 12:00:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

hWell, this is how I see it; he has reported it, late maybe, but he has. And Pikeman says in many 'top-preforming' organisation a late report is no incident, well, I guess that would hang on how we judge top-performing; good at gaming certain abstract criteria maybe, but safer than average? There's no way of knowing if they're going to make arbitrary rules about reporting.

Many years ago one of our managers injured her knee at work. Two years(!) later she had an op that resulted in time off work; the op was directly related to the original injury. I contacted HSE (in those days you could do this for free) and yes, reportable, without a shadow of a doubt.

I would report this and anything similar, as in the event of a prosecution it's one less charge, costs nothing, and usually has no consequences,

John
fairlieg  
#11 Posted : 09 July 2014 15:21:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fairlieg

Employee (lets call him Steve) limps into the office first thing in the morning.

"Hey i need to report an accident, I twisted my ankle in a pot hole in the car park this morning"

"okay I'll take some details and go have a look".

Steve goes home and we later that day find he has a broken bone in his ankle and will be off for at least 2 weeks

Later that day in the canteen two of Steve's colleagues are overheard.

" Ha did you see that tackle Steve got at 5 aside last night, he could hardly walk after that, I though he was going to puke he looked like he was in some serious pain"........ this is based on a true story although names have been changed to protect the identity of those involved...........

Point is if they are going to lie they will do it any way. The example above and the OP are both plausible work related injuries. Even if they did not report and made a claim against the company, the burden of proof still shifts to the employer.

Also you might miss an opportunity to prevent a similar accident if you don't investigate and you can always argue weather or not it happened at work at a later date if need be however, its always easier to gather evidence for that now rather than leave it to 3 years later when they eventually do decide to make a claim........

I would report it but I would also make sure I made it clear how long it took the employee to bring it to your attention
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