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Zanshin67  
#1 Posted : 17 August 2014 10:59:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Zanshin67

Dear all

we have a small satellite office unit,

so in order to meet the required Legionella checks x2 shower heads are disinfected on a monthly basis

water is flushed regularly and we have a boiler that heats water above 50c mixer valves are fitted however at the sink units water is run at 42c to prevent scalding.

in order to satisfy the required recorded temperature checks is this satisfactory? or should we have a temperature gauge fitted to the water heater itself?

thanks

Dave
Xavier123  
#2 Posted : 18 August 2014 09:26:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Ideally you should be heating your boiler up to above 60 once a month in order to achieve a legionella kill. Above 50 prevents growth but won't likely deliver you a kill.

You can measure that temp at sentinel outlets though - nominally the first outlet on the flow from the boiler...and checking out the last outlet will give you a good idea of whether you're getting full circulation at that temperature.
So a temp gauge can make life easier but isn't by any means a requirement so long as you can demo in other ways.
Which brings us on to mixer valves....an oft held debate. Unless your satellite office employs vulnerable people then scalding is rarely a genuine risk. It's more often than not a comfort/complaint issue...and designers do love to incorporate them.
Is there some other means of checking the temperature of the pipes? Can you access and use a surface probe on the pipe itself to check temp of water inside? How much of a hassle is this?

And therein lies your debate - hassle of checking circulation temp as an indirect measurement of boiler temp vs getting a gauge.



Additionally, unless your showers are infrequently used, you could probably get away with disinfecting/descaling on a quarterly basis unless you've got some other issues on site.
chris.packham  
#3 Posted : 18 August 2014 10:25:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Re hand washing and water temperature, there is actually a very good reason for incorporating thermostatic water temperature control, and it has nothing to do with scalding. Studies have shown that temperature in excess of 40 deg. C causes damage to the lamellar layer in the stratum corneum adversely affecting the skin's barrier properties. It can take the skin several hours to recover its normal barrier function during which time the person is at increased risk of both skin damage and systemic uptake of chemicals. In fact, the ideal temperature for hand washing is just 32 deg C.
Chris
Xavier123  
#4 Posted : 18 August 2014 12:44:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

I was actually thinking of mentioning your point Chris. ;) Not that I knew about it until you raised it on another legionella related thread a few months ago....


But most mixer taps or TVC's still deliver at above 40C - presumably based upon the misplaced fear of scalding rather than anything else. Luckily in an office, chemical uptake risks are likely lower than elsewhere but the point is still well made about the how and why of mixer taps being installed is seemingly removed from the relevant science.
I note that HSG274 Part 2 expects them to deliver temperatures between 38 and 46 and suggests that the fitting of them is a trade off between scalding and risk of legionella. I can't thus see that they serve any genuine h/s function in an office environment but I struggle to think of many dedicated office sites built in the last ten years that haven't installed them almost as standard. It leaves people like Zanshin having to make other compromises as a consequence...let alone your point about skin damage and increased associated risks!
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