Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Turner26750  
#1 Posted : 19 September 2014 08:58:12(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Turner26750

Hi,

Please can anyone help. Each year our insurers have completed thorough examinations of our dock levellers which have been in situ for many uears, and for the last couple of years they have noted that the emergency stop buttons don't actually stop the levellers immediately, but under a controlled stop. Their reports state we need to upgrade them to immediate stop buttons (class B action).

This has a huge cost to our business though, i mean hundreds of thousands we have so many bays.

I have just taken over the role and it seems the previous H&S Manager has ignored these reports and just filed them away.

If we do a cost v benefit analysis and prove the cost outweighs the benefit would this be worth anything in the event of an EHO visit (with or without an injury)? Or because we are failing to act on an inspector's report are we in trouble?

Help please. I need to report to the Board early next week so need hard facts.

Thanks,

Sarah

Safety Smurf  
#2 Posted : 19 September 2014 14:57:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Hi Sarah,

If you've got that many bays then I'm guessing it's a pretty big operation and your defence probably wouldn't wash.

You should also take into account that if someone is seriously injured by a dock leveller then any compensation awarded would have to be payed by the company as your insurers wouldn't pay out.

At which point you would have to carry out the remdial actions and incur the cost anyway, but this time to someone elses timetable not one you had reached yourself.
Xavier123  
#3 Posted : 19 September 2014 15:09:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Missing some info here as we don't know the exact detail of the dock leveller....but how much of a risk reduction will this change actually bring about?

What are the foreseeable conditions in which a controlled stop wouldn't prevent the occurrence or worsening of the reason for hitting the stop button? A controlled stop could be anywhere from around half a second upwards in my mind so its not clear whether this is simply to bring the kit in line with a technical standard or whether there is something more going on e.g. they know of injuries/risk and have adopted a stricter line on that basis.

Apologies if you've already done it but have you spoken with your insurers engineer directly to learn the history of the change?


Unless its a timed requirement to make on the report, there is no automatic falling foul of LOLER (as there is on using kit beyond an immediate or timed issue)...although Smurf probably hits it on the head with argument that harder to defend not taking action when so many of levellers in use - yes the costs of change go up but so does the likelihood of a relevant incident occurring across the group.
I'd still keep coming back to getting the exact details from the engineer so you can better analyse risk reduction - you might find its something pretty darn important...or equally just a compliance issue with an updated standard with no discernible benefit for your own operation.
paul.skyrme  
#4 Posted : 20 September 2014 20:05:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Sarah,
I would recommend the following.
First, a single word question to your insurers.
Why?
Then followed up with.
Please explain in detail the reasons for the requirement for this change in stop category, quoting the relevant changes in statute law, product standards, and formal industry expectations that have prompted you to require this change.

I am amazed that this information has not already been provided.
IF the "inspector" is a REAL Engineer, then this answer should be easy for them to provide.

The next thing you need to consider, is, are the dock levellers CE marked, in the installed condition?

Then you get into a huge technically detailed scenario, which will involve contract law, competence, timescales and a whole raft of other stuff, that could cost more than re-designing the stop system.

However, you need to understand that IF you make any design changes and implement them at the insurance companies request, if, the units are CE marked, then this marking will be invalidated.

This gets silly then, as the insurer can then require additional "stuff", and land you in the same situation again.

You need to take seriously competent advice on the demands of the insurer to ensure that they are correct, and reasonable.
Not everyone gets it right all the time.

The OEM, and installer obviously believed that the stop system you have is fine.
Why does it now need changing?


Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.