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Legionella risk assessments in domestic rented property?
Rank: New forum user
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it is now a requirement of the ACOP L8 which extends to domestic rented properties, ok so far so good but it is not clear what the competence standard for the assessor should be? any ideas? several companies are offering a range of specific training and I'm unsure which will be most suitable. I currently hold NEBOSH dip 1 and 2, NVQ 4 & 5 and a range of other risk management courses but legionella is not a specialty. I under stand the basis but need to become competent before giving advice
your idea welcome
sue
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Rank: Forum user
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This sounds like a question for the legionella control association
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks Chris, Have dropped them a line
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Rank: Super forum user
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Part one of competence is knowing when you are not - so good on you for being initially critical of yourself.
Technically speaking the law has not changed and the new ACoP is not making any new demands, just highlighting that they were always there.
Competence for a legionella risk assessor is really rather complicated. I personally think that they are some of the most complex assessments that can be regularly come across (without moving into the more specialist fields associated with higher hazard premises/activities). COSHH is always more complicated than many people realise...except those who regularly read this forum!
The LCA don't set any competence standards so wouldn't be able to easily assist, and unfortunately the rather glib answer is that member companies of the LCA need to determine their own competence standards which they then need to meet.
But bear in mind the following from BS8580 ..assessor...'should be able to demonstrate that they have specialist knowledge of Legionella bacteria, relevant water treatment and the water system(s) to be assessed and that they are competent to carry out the necessary surveys, measurements and sampling.'.
So this includes knowledge of microbiology, water chemistry and plumbing/engineering in addition to health and safety and associated practical skills.
HOWEVER
I'd like to keep this in check since you've clearly indicated that you're considering domestic premises. The ACoP and HSG274 Part 2 describes most water systems and I would presume that you're looking at fairly simple 2/3/4 bedroom properties with fairly straightforward hot/cold water systems in regular use. Following and applying the guidance will most likely see you through - particularly if you can see the management risks that go beyond day to day legionella control.
95% of legionella control is keep it clean, keep it hot/cold and keep it moving...the remaining 5% is the ability to spot those situations outside of 'normal' which require extra control measures. I consider it unlikely for these to arise in most domestic properties. Do you feel confident that you could identify situations such as these for which you could bring in extra help as needed?
Cor I whizzed through and wrote that ... and then realised its super wordy. Apologies!
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Rank: New forum user
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many thanks Xavier, that was useful words. I am relatively well qualified in lots of risk assessment stuff but for my own piece of mind the question in court is always concerning competence. I have identified a specific one day course for domestic properties which I think will suffice. Think I will start in my own property which should be straight forward as its got no hot water tank!
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Rank: Guest
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Is this an attempt for the HSE / LA to enter your property without warrant similar to we think you may be storing too much petrol. As far as I am aware there has never been an outbreak from a private dwelling.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Local and Fire Authorities have long had powers relating to rented accommodation see HMO's, Building Act, etc. Nothing new here. Just stating existing status quo and making it clearer. Landlords make money from renting properties - it can be defined as a business so HASWA applies to their work activities.
But the Health and Safety AT WORK etc. Act does not generally apply to private residences. End of.
There really is no conspiracy here I'm afraid.
And there most certainly have been LD cases linked to residential properties...but an 'outbreak' would be difficult due to numbers of people likely to be exposed.
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Rank: Guest
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I rent a house so can the HSE demand to come in to inspect my heating system and perhaps if it's not convenient I am fined for obstruction ?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I feel like I'm being somewhat trolled here. For the sake of the forum rules I won't post a highly sarcastic answer.
I'm just glad I don't live in a world where I genuinely worry that the health & safety regulator is about to kick my door down in the name of legionella control.
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Rank: Guest
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It appears to me the HSE / LA s may be encroaching more and more into domestic premises. So can they demand entry to my rented house yes or no ?
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Rank: Forum user
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Xavier123 wrote:I feel like I'm being somewhat trolled here. For the sake of the forum rules I won't post a highly sarcastic answer.
I'm just glad I don't live in a world where I genuinely worry that the health & safety regulator is about to kick my door down in the name of legionella control.
Quite.
And the circumstances in which an HSE Inspector can require entry:
a) are clearly laid out in HSWA74;
b) are well covered in guidance on the HSE website; and
c) were spelled out in another topic started by your suspected troll a little over a month ago.
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Rank: Guest
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Manners and logic I find are interrelated therefore I ask again can the HSE demand entry to a rented house against the domestic tenants wishes to inspect the water systems yes or no ?
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Legionella risk assessments in domestic rented property?
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