Rank: Forum user 
|
Does anyone use defibs at work? I have been tasked in finding out which Corporate/Insurance companies use these to 'aid' our Company in deciding whether to purchase them. So far, they have rejected the idea. As there do nt appear to be any in most of the offices we operate from they are almost saying why should we have them, i.e. what do other companies do if they are faced with an incident?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
We have two on site.
Defibs are simple to use and relatively cheap.
Is there a real risk on site that might require a defib?
High age profile of workforce or visitors?
I calculated the cost per unit to buy and maintain to be £400 per year over its lifecycle.
Hopefully it will sit and do nothing, but if it ever saves one life, then £400 per year is neither here nor there.
However, if someone could not be helped and died as a result of a saving of £400 per year.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Thanks for this information, its helpful that your figure is lower than when I researched, it gives more of a bargaining tool. Do you work for a private firm? Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
We have one on site and we are pushing for a second. I work in a large warehouse and conjoining office facility- we have 10 first aiders trained to use the AED but as previously mentioned they talk you through everything you need to know to use it. If it helps save a life then great, if it sits doing nothing then so be it. You need to look at the workforce, age, size, size of site etc- hence why we are pushing for another so we can have one in the office and one in the warehouse- helping to cut the time it takes to reach one and start the process.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I note you are London based. It may be of benefit if you spoke to the London Ambulance Service who are currently promoting the use of defibs and their Defibrillator Accreditation Scheme. They will talk to you/your organisation about them and dispel some of the myths etc. I was at a very good talk they did a short time ago and we now have 8 across our sites. Contact details are as follows;
www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/defib
or
email: defib@londonambulance.nhs.uk
The excellent speakers at the talk I was at were Martin Bullock (Community Defibrillation Officer) and Henry Dom (Community Resuscitation Training Officer).
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Some industrial estates co-operate on security and safety issues, they have a little committee to share knowledge, concerns and also certain equipment.
Right now I'm on an industrial estate which operates such a committee, one large employer (>100 employees) and approx. 40 other much smaller premises. One of those premises is a charity medical centre with a defibrillator. It is there to be accessible to all employers on the estate, and could be brought to any of the other premises within 5 minutes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Explorer,
Yes I am private sector.
My figures may be slightly out of date.
Prices came from one of the two major nationwide first aid providers who are a registered charity. They are always willing to come on site and give a demo together with pretty convincing facts and figures for doubtful senior management.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Explorer,
Replied here to promote discussion on the topic. These are the findings from our examination of the subject.
Pros
Provides quick response
74% improvement in survival rate from use in high population public areas
Provides reassurance to employees
Cons
Units open to being tampered with
Requires training for all those potentially using them
May delay response time by Paramedics‘s as individuals delay calling for emergency response while attempting resuccitation
Potential for legal action against individuals for assault/injury
Requires additional insurance cover
May be reluctance to apply learning
AEDs present an additional risk of electric shock if used in the wrong environment I.e., on metal surfaces
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Whilst I agree with some of John J's findings, I do question some of the cons and whether they are really issues at all:
Delayed response times through using AED devices shouldn't be a problem with FAW trained personnel, however if someone is likely to delay calling emergency services by favouring use of an AED my thoughts are that the same person would be just as likely delaying that call to administer manual CPR, so I personally don't see the AED being the cause of any delay.
The risk of electric shock with AED - and I am happy to be proven wrong here - is something I thought could not happen with modern AED due to them only responding to detected fibrillation in a cardiac arrest event?
Regarding legal action for assault/injury, as AED are designed to prevent misuse I cannot imagine a scenario which could lead to assault, aside from physically beating someone with the AED?
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
John J wrote:Explorer,
Replied here to promote discussion on the topic. These are the findings from our examination of the subject.
Pros
Provides quick response
74% improvement in survival rate from use in high population public areas
Provides reassurance to employees
Cons
Units open to being tampered with
Requires training for all those potentially using them
May delay response time by Paramedics‘s as individuals delay calling for emergency response while attempting resuccitation
Potential for legal action against individuals for assault/injury
Requires additional insurance cover
May be reluctance to apply learning
AEDs present an additional risk of electric shock if used in the wrong environment I.e., on metal surfaces
Cabinets with keycodes can be installed
Training only requires under PUWER
WILL NOT delay response. Any unconscious non breathing casualty is a Cat A call and will get an 8 min response regardless of a defib being on site
No successful prosecution ever been made for use of a DEFIB, and never will
Defibs are safe to use on metal surfaces.
Bottom line you can't be worse than dead.
We have fire extinguishers in every building on every floor and very very rarely have fires. We have many out of hospital cardiac arrests and very few
Phil
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
If there is nobody around to administer manual CPR, then the AED will be "shocking" a corpse (well, actually it won't, since it just won't work. Only around 37% of cardiac arrests have an abnormality correctable by AED)
If you're only going to stand around waiting for an AED to arrive, you may as well not bother.
CPR, phone call, AED.
The survival rate is still low. Around 3-5%
It's not much better in hospital.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
some great comments here as usual
My advice is to undertake a proper unbiased F-Aid risk assessment [as U should be doing] and make your decision from that point
In my experience many defibs are bought to satisfy a political rather than real need e.g. councils where U find them in the town hall but not in out lying places of work even where such workplaces could be more likely to have a need
And remember some of the advice already given herein as unless your first aid cover is suitable and sufficient in the first place having a defib may not help and you cannot account for all things as heart failure can happen at any time to anybody and age is not always a factor [last two heart failures that concerned my workplace happened to people below 40, who were non-smokers and very fit! and not the high profile sports people that have just collapsed]
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.