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Steve SJP RM  
#1 Posted : 08 January 2015 10:33:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve SJP RM

Is anybody using the Prohibition or Improvement Notice / Red - Yellow & Green Cards system as part of their management system? Looking for some template's - I have tried this system before and it works reasonable well but do not have the info and would like to trial it at a new organisation. Can you help?
walker  
#2 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:37:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

These look like they would appeal to someone with a clipboard & comb over. Knowing our folks, I've a feeling if I introduced these I'd end up with a few blockages to bodily orifices.
Steve SJP RM  
#3 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:42:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve SJP RM

walker wrote:
These look like they would appeal to someone with a clipboard & comb over. Really? very useful tools though - surprised that you've not heard of them before - its also about rewarding as well!
ashleywillson  
#4 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:43:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ashleywillson

I'm in the same boat as Walker on this, our guys would hate it! Having said that, it is horses for courses. Perhaps after the trial consulting with the employees to get their thoughts on it may prove useful!
ExDeeps  
#5 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:43:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

Red, yellow, green cards = "Referee....!, that's never a red, he should get a yellow first" and other discussions of a similar ilk such as "How's about a Rugby style Sin Bin", in my experience. Don't like them won't use them if I can avoid them.
Steve SJP RM  
#6 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:46:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve SJP RM

Begs the question What do you do to reward? Or what disciplinary procedure's are you or have you implemented?
walker  
#7 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:49:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

SteveParry wrote:
walker wrote:
These look like they would appeal to someone with a clipboard & comb over. Really? very useful tools though - surprised that you've not heard of them before - its also about rewarding as well!
Oh I had heard of them, but consider the idea a great way to start an "us & them" war.
Steve SJP RM  
#8 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:55:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve SJP RM

There are and always will be arguments for and against, in my opinion its about delivery and explanation after consultation. Once its understood, they tend to have a good effect in my experience but you will "again" always get the negative comments as always.
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 08 January 2015 14:24:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Been discussed many times on these forums with most providing negative comments. I did work for a company who provided INs and PNs of a sort, thay can be quite effective in getting the message home where all else fails. If I was to use yellow/red card system the first thing I would do is to give them out to all the superviors and managers...don't think I would be around much longer!
toe  
#10 Posted : 08 January 2015 20:44:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

No exactly the same but..... Doing some consultancy work some years ago, I issued an action plan for a local Manager with some serious issues that needed addressed. When I reported back the directors a few months later that the Local Manager was not upholding his responsibility to take action, they asked me how they (the directorate) could manage and control this better. Taking into consideration they received all the inspection reports. We came up with a RED CARD system, in effect if we seen something that would have warranted a PN from the regulators or there was a continued shortfall, we issued the RED CARD, they went directly to the Operations Director and the local Manager was taken to task by him. Once the local Managers got wind of this and some ended up in front of the persons at B, safety with the organisation ended up being great. Horses for Courses this worked for them Just giving an example when this sort of thing did work and was positive, as consultants we were thick skinned and had no axes to grind - we called it as we seen it.
Lawlee45239  
#11 Posted : 09 January 2015 09:06:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

I have used them with a previous company (system already in place when I joined), and the general feeling was negative, the guys get their backs up. Another (client lead) system, was if you were found to be carrying out something dangerous/ not as per the RAMs, then both you and your supervisor had to resit the induction, and revisit the RAMS. This worked well, as no company wants half a day down time, the supervisor cannot afford to miss a half day on site either. I do think the reward system works well, the guys always like getting canteen vouchers (or other vouchers) when good practice is noted.
RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 09 January 2015 09:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

A system in a thread I generated a little while ago proposed that managers of each disciplines received points when one of their supervisors or operatives was found to be in breach of company rules. The idea was to make the managers more responsible for the actions of their staff. A table would reflect the best/worst performing teams. I did not introduce this but it was food for thought, although once again most of the comments were negative. Personally, I think this is a better system than issuing yellow/red cards, which tend to be issued only to low ranking personnel and more often than not, sub-contractors.
HSSnail  
#13 Posted : 09 January 2015 10:17:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Do you use yellow and red cards for any other breach in company rules, such as poor time keeping? Personally I would not introduce a different system for H&S any breach of company rules/policy should be covered by same sanctions. Have seen this type of card system as the first stage of a formal disciplinary system and I think most people found it petty and it breed ill feeling amongst staff. In my opinion you get the Jose Mourinho's affect - Why am I getting a yellow card and him over there who's worse than me does not! Its all a conspiracy against me! Brian
Gav81  
#14 Posted : 09 January 2015 12:29:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gav81

I believe it depends on the context in which it is used. For example I have used this system when carrying out the role of a Principal Contractor Site Manager when managing numerous contractors during a construction/demolition project. It this instance it works rather well, as there are clear and concise site rules that must be adhered to during high risk activities. However I would never introduce this at the company at work for now as an in-house HSSE Advisor, as mentioned before it could create a 'them and us scenario'. If not already introduced, perhaps some of safety observation system could be introduced that involves buy-in from the workforce, in which they can report hazards, unsafe practice and also positive examples of safe practice. I also believe that coaching individuals or supervisors/managers etc will have a more positive impact, e.g. if unsafe working practice has been identified, talking openly with individuals to explain what you saw and receive feedback from the individuals concerned. This of course has to be approached in the correct manner and tactfulness is a must. This may not work for everyone I know, and may be only certain H&S practitioners that can pull this off but i does engage the guys a lot more.
chris42  
#15 Posted : 09 January 2015 13:24:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

This is an interesting debate. Though I'm struggling to understand the benefits which some allude are there. Is it that a yellow card equals verbal warning, Red = disciplinary and green somewhere in the middle so = written warning ? Or is this all before the verbal etc warnings start ? If it is as above I'm struggling to see where any advantage is over the normal HR disciplinary system. Though the OP didn't really ask for our opinion on the system, just if someone would be good enough to provide templates. Chris
RayRapp  
#16 Posted : 09 January 2015 13:46:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Chris The process is based on the same principles as a football referee i.e. yellow card = first warning; red card = second warning or serious violation i.e. you're off site, fired, capput! However, as my previous post suggests, this is much easier to implement with sub-contractors who are more easily expendable due to the lack of contractual/employment relationship. So in practice this type of system can only be implemented on construction type sites where there are subbies and contingent labour. In fairness, I understand on a very busy site with lots of people it may be easier and more effective to discipline workers with such a autocratic system. It would also serve to remind others that unsafe acts will not be tolerated lightly.
Gav81  
#17 Posted : 09 January 2015 14:27:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gav81

I totally agree RayRapp, like I said in my previous post it works well if you're managing contractors on a construction site and it's incorporated into the site rules and construction phase plan etc But if you're an actual colleague you should be looking to engage your guys in H&S dialogue in order to change attitude and behaviour!
Steve SJP RM  
#18 Posted : 12 January 2015 08:44:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve SJP RM

Though the OP didn't really ask for our opinion on the system, just if someone would be good enough to provide templates. Chris
Spot - on!!! - all though the feedback is welcome... It is for construction and is hopefully the procedure or mechanism before HR or senior management get involved and used by the project management teams. It's yet to be approved, which will be built into the system and I am looking for a template if anyone has one - could you PM me?
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