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Birchall31628  
#1 Posted : 16 January 2015 09:47:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Birchall31628

Hi, I am planning to arrange that our building surveying team access some redundant plant and equipment including dryers, combustion chambers, extractors, sulphuric acid and sodium silicate chambers. I am to find out if there is and residual content of hazardous substances and as to whether they are needing to purge the confined spaces in advance. My main concern is the confined spaces so the query relates to whether it is necessary for us to wear full positive pressure breathing apparatus once the area has been purged?? Is there any chance of further hazardous fumes ingressing or generating from residues once the purge has been conducted, or does it remain to be prurged whilst we are accessing such??
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 16 January 2015 10:34:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Not an expert in this area, however I would have thought the use of gas monitors in the areas you describe would be part of the answer.
Alfasev  
#3 Posted : 16 January 2015 11:05:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

You need to look at the ACOP and there is much more to entering a confine space than using a gas monitor. The starting point is a detailed risk assessment and method statement. The need to wear breathing apparatus is dependent on the risk. Breathing apparatus is either needed because you know there are toxic gases or they are highly likely to be present and possibly for self-rescue.

You can get gas monitors that you can fit suction tubes to that allow you to test a confined space without entering it. If you are unsure or believe you are not competent enough to organise it contact a specialist like Mines Rescue, expensive but good.
JohnW  
#4 Posted : 16 January 2015 11:07:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Birchall,

How old are these plant and the premises? There may be asbestos insulation around the combustion chambers, pipes and the dryers, and the condition of any asbestos needs to be determined before others start opening chambers and pipes etc


James Robinson  
#5 Posted : 16 January 2015 12:41:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
James Robinson

Please also consider if relevant persons disturbing gas trapped in sediments or sludge. I have had clear air monitoring results on entry, that suddenly start to register gases released by persons "walking on crud" and releasing trapped gases.
stuie  
#6 Posted : 16 January 2015 12:48:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stuie

Back to basics - can the work be avoided?
What are they going in there for?
If it is inspection can you use CCTV or such like from outside?
Would it be cheaper/easier/quicker to get competent contractors in (who have all necessary kit) to do the job?
Just a thought.
Stu
russ pt  
#7 Posted : 16 January 2015 14:20:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
russ pt

Birchall

you also need to consider the substances (potential) contained within the confined space and atmosphere before deciding on the correct method of purging; airing, steam, nitrogen followed by air, water etc.
A gas/air test will be necessary following purging and before entry, however as above you need to understand what substances/gases you are measuring for.
shauncampbell  
#8 Posted : 16 January 2015 15:08:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
shauncampbell

Have a look at the new and simplified guidance by the HSE :

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l101.htm

This will give you a good understanding of what is required.

Regards Shaun
boblewis  
#9 Posted : 19 January 2015 11:53:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Without detailed certification of cleaning you should not really expect to be sending anyone into this sort of area. BS are also the last people I would expect to be competent in the use of Positive Pressure PPE and protective wear. Get the experts in to clean and flush properly and undertake surveys. Plant will need cleaning properly before dismantling in any case.
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