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Barrie(Badger)Etter  
#1 Posted : 28 January 2015 10:33:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Barrie(Badger)Etter

I'm a safety advisor for a small company who are due a building fixed wiring check, I've covered PAT testing but not a building fixed wiring check before. I wondered if anyone has a pre commencement checklist of things to do? I've checked the contractors credentials, communicated with I.T. and relevant department heads but still feel I've missed something. Would anyone be able to offer any suggestions to help settle that nagging itch! Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Badger
paul.skyrme  
#2 Posted : 28 January 2015 16:31:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Sorry Barry, I'm not one who has these checks done, I would be involved with doing the checks, not having them done. All I would suggest is have as few limitations as possible. Not being able to turn the power off because systems will go off is not really an excuse. How would they manage in the event of a power outage? If they can cope with a power cut, they can cope with a short supply interruption to check that the place is safe.
Flashman  
#3 Posted : 28 January 2015 16:38:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Flashman

Hi Barrie Access to distribution boards (moving the junk out of them) Notify the fire service if the building is alarmed Notify any intruder alarm company involved Plan for any out of hours work rather than have a load of limitation on the report (as Paul notes) Can people be moved from any places that testing is being carried out? Lighting points above desks etc. Stair ways may need to be closed for a short time for inspections/tests of lighting points. Talk to the contractor and find out what he/she needs access to.
Barrie(Badger)Etter  
#4 Posted : 28 January 2015 18:19:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Barrie(Badger)Etter

Thanks guys, this is the sort thing the nagging itch was telling me I'd missed. Paul, the company doing the test will do 100% on the board but sample at the socket end (put simply), what is involved in the testing at the socket end & how long on average for a good socket? Any more? Badger
paul.skyrme  
#5 Posted : 28 January 2015 22:16:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Barrie, Unfortunately it's not that simple! It never is with electricity as it is so able to kill. You are saying 100%, of what and to do what, visual or testing? What percentage of the "socket end" are they going to sample, and will that be an inspection sample or a testing sample? I don't agree with a testing sample TBH, as if you sample test, then you cannot correctly complete the forms to comply with BS7671. You can sample inspect, but, IF you find issues, then BS7671 guides you to increasing the sample, and if you find further issues to increase the sample again, then, again if there are more issues. Are there any records for the installation? If not then they should not even start I&T until they have adequate records. Next, I have never thought about what I would want, because it is not normally a condition I can negotiate. However, as Flashman says, those points are valid. Basically anything you can do do make the Inspectors life easier and quicker should make it cheaper and more comprehensive for you. In my experience the insurance companies are getting more "savvy", and so they should be, but, this is not stopping the "drive by" or "made up" results inspections from still happening, it is just that they have to make up more results.
Flashman  
#6 Posted : 29 January 2015 10:21:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Flashman

Sample testing is never a good plan but, sadly, it goes on. The last thing I would 'sample' test are the socket-outlet circuits. In fact, I humbly suggest that every accessible socket outlet is tested for Zs as a matter of course. As Paul says, What you will find is that as a minimum 10% of accessories on each circuit (100% of circuits) will be inspected (opened up and inspected). If anything untoward is found that percentage will need to be increased say to 20% If more problems ... you guessed it... for example, if there are 20 fittings then 1 fitting is opened if 11 fittings then 2No will be opened and so on. If there are no records of testing having being done and the distribution boards have no circuit ID then I hope you have got good electricians booked in. By good, I mean qualified and not just the company being with the NICEIC/ECA etc. Ask for the qualifications of the person that is going to do the testing. Look for City and Guilds 2391 or 2395. Nothing else will do. Feel free to PM me if I can help further.
Flashman  
#7 Posted : 29 January 2015 10:22:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Flashman

20 fittings ... Yes I know = 2 fittings. It should have read 10 fittings!!! It is early ;-)
Barrie(Badger)Etter  
#8 Posted : 29 January 2015 15:15:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Barrie(Badger)Etter

Further to earlier comments I came across this link supplied by the contractor who will be doing the testing and found it very helpful. Usual disclaimer ... http://reaction-grp.com/information-area/ Badger
DaveBridle  
#9 Posted : 29 January 2015 15:34:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

In addition to all of the above. I was in the process of trying to sort out one for a hospital (a real major job). I am not sure the size of the building you are having surveyed, but all I can suggest is that the better the planning the "easier" it will be. This includes consultation/communication with employees. One thing that may help would be thermographic surveys of DBs. Whilst this does not form compliance to regs it does help you plan your fixed wiring installation. It can be used to spot issues almost immediately and rectify problems and hopefully avoid the C1/C2 issues. You can then have the full survey carried out knowing that the final report will have any C1 or C2 finding already addressed.
Flashman  
#10 Posted : 29 January 2015 15:50:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Flashman

An EICR is a report on the condition of the electrical installation. Unless specifically asked for the EICR does not include fault rectification just identification of the problem. C1 faults must be addressed and cannot be left. (Page 80 GN3) I would suggest that the EICR is completed and then any C2 faults be prioritised. To carry out an inspection and test in a stop-start fashion will prove to be both time consuming and costly. The inspector and the install people may not necessarily be the same people. The contractor will have allowed a certain time for the testing and will need extra time to work out costs and a time table for any repairs. It is simply not practical to do it otherwise.
paul.skyrme  
#11 Posted : 29 January 2015 19:39:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Barrie(Badger)Etter wrote:
Further to earlier comments I came across this link supplied by the contractor who will be doing the testing and found it very helpful. Usual disclaimer ... http://reaction-grp.com/information-area/ Badger
Well, glad you put the disclaimer in there Barrie, as there are a lot of factual errors on that site!
Flashman  
#12 Posted : 30 January 2015 17:05:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Flashman

Paul, you are getting to be a master of understatement sir ;-) I wonder if the contractor has done all his training via that site? I would ask a few questions myself!
paul.skyrme  
#13 Posted : 31 January 2015 18:04:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

One other comment Barrie, once they have the EICR completed, and the remedial works done, then they should be pedantic about getting EIC's or MWC's for any further electrical works that they have undertaken, and keep records of any maintenance done which does not attract the requirement for certification under BS7671. Finally, I would warn them to check the conditions of their business insurance, is it this that is instigating the EICR? If so, the terms may well require that any C1 defects are remedied immediately, C2's within say a month, and it may even go as far as to require C3's to be rectified. If they fall foul of that, bearing in mind that there will be a formal indelible record in the way of the EICR, then they will be possibly uninsured, or have claims refused. I know of one case where an insurance claim was refused because it was a term of the policy that the company undertook PAT in accordance with the HSE guidance & IET CoP. They didn't, the claim was nothing to do with portable appliances, but, the company was in breach of the terms, thus claim refused.
tony.  
#14 Posted : 01 February 2015 16:24:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
tony.

I agree with Paul's comments. Agree a specification first otherwise you will get a minimum sampling.
Flashman  
#15 Posted : 02 February 2015 09:00:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Flashman

A walk around by a competent electrical inspector armed with previous test reports should identify any problem areas that mat take priority during the inspection prior and testing. If 'sampling' is to take place he/she may suggest particular distribution boards. Within these boards and number of circuits may be identified as 'sample' circuits. If these circuits have signs of degradation since the last report then the circuit sample size should be increased to the point where a full scale inspection and test is recommended. However, the accessory sample of each circuit inspected and tested should be a minimum of 10%. Some people have a so-called 'rolling program' where a number od circuits are tested each year until all circuits have bee tested. On large inspections/tests such as hospitals, Marinas and comprehensive schools the I would (if I had to make a choice) test the power boards as a priority. I would, as others have said, aske the insurance people first. I would however listen (and if needed ask questions) to the advice of the people you propose to engage for the inspection. If all else fails, you could always send me a PM if you have any doubts and I will do my best to guide you. Free of charge as it happens.
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