Rank: Forum user 
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Guys
Major row brewing in the office with a Domestic Project Manager
could financial penalties be imposed on sub contractors who fail to wear correct PPE
Im saying Legally this is dodgy
His concern is how else do you enforce the message
Im saying better subcontractors and better site supervision enforcement of rules as in
Warn once then off site
Thoughts?
Cheers
L
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Rank: Super forum user 
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It all depends what the contract terms say. You can make a sub-contractor do what is covered by the detailed contract terms. So, if the Project Manager wants to impose particular sanctions, he'd better sort out the details with the Contacts people, rather than his OSH Advisor.
Also, since avoidance is more effective than trying to clear up a mess, he'd be better concentrating on the process used to assess and appoint prospective sub-contractors. Do their own disciplinary measures get checked? If they do and they are good, he needs to persuade the sub-contractor to use them for individuals who fail to wear correct PPE.
Note: A good disciplinary process will always seek to understand fully the reasons for non-compliance before deciding on an appropriate action. If he pursues that approach with the sub-contractor management rather than leaping straight to 'discipline the individual' as the optimum action, then maybe he'll find some other root causes?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I know one of the major house builder fines or in contractual terms, counter charges if subcontractors do not clean up after them. Never hear of fines for not wearing PPE. I sympathise with your Project Manager, getting PPE worn on domestic sites can be an impossible task. On typical domestic sites I suspect they will simply walk off the job if you try and fine them.
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Rank: Forum user
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Alfserv
There lies the rub . . .he tells me there good lads but I believe they cant be that good if they not "playing the game"
My opinion is get rid but he is loathe to do that . . .
Imwaldra
Havent a clue what the contract says as work has been on going prior to me joining this company
Cheers both
L
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Rank: Forum user
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I asked a couple of questions a while back. One was ;
Why do I need to wear a hi vis vest when I'm wiring the attic?
Another was 'why am I told to wear a hard hat in the attic?
Yet another .. 'Why do I need to wear steel toe boots in the attic?'
Why are you asking to put dust sheets on the stairs when it's a tripping hazard?
Answer... you have to.
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Rank: Forum user
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'Get rid'? I take it you are referring to the workers involved?
I'd get a safety person who looks at the job, assesses the job, makes a RAMS and then looks at the PPE! Not some half-soaked H&E person who puts blanket sanctions in place and seems to hold the workforce in complete contempt. You never know, they may actually know more than you.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I doubt it is legal to fine sub-contractors for not wearing PPE. I've never heard of it being done and suspect it would be in breach of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, as amended.
It really is about managing your contracts and subbies...there are ways to encourage compliance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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In the UK you can't write it into a contract a fanancial penalty for things like this (it is common place in other countries)...they way to do it is to escort the offender off site...if that has an impact on the project delivery that is down to the contractor so by default you have financially penalised him..
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Rank: Super forum user
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Regardless of the legality of it I cant see how this would foster good morale within your workforce. It smacks of leading by fear which is not a good place to be.
We are reasonably lucky in that our subbies will do pretty much what we tell them to without question. There are other ways to offer incentive. I would be looking at positive incentives as opposed to negative ones. For example, rewarding them all with a bacon buttie on a Friday morning for a good weeks compliance. The cost of a few butties soon outweighs the costs involved with finding new labour cos you have kicked someone off site, or in more serious cases, FFI!
In short Lojikglos, I agree with you on this one, fines are not the answer!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Mind you it would be interesting to apply fines to senior personnel who fail to comply!
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Rank: Super forum user
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As far as I am aware contracts can have such things included within them and can be enforced as can quality, deliverable dates and other such areas provided all parties are in agreement. However take specialist advice and note that if enforcement is left to the H&S bod H&S will not be seen in its proper place
And note the advice of others as noted herein
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Rank: Super forum user 
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RISK ASSESSMENT
all work should have risk assessments with hazards removed as far as possible.
Hazards remaining should have recommended actions i.e. PPE requirements.
Review the risk assessments and if Unsuitable the contractor should be required to improve them.
Blanket rules do cause problems.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Perhaps adopting a "no access without appropriate PPE" would go some way to resolving the issue?
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Rank: Forum user
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Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall that implicit in every "contract" is that the parties bound by it must adhere to the "law of the land" in which the contract is made.
So technically they would be in breach of contract..... just a thought.
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