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Driving on Company business - carrying a license
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CdC  
#1 Posted : 19 February 2015 14:58:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC
Hi All,

We have recently introduced minimum standards required of our drivers and their personal cars when used for company business.
We, of course, require our drivers to hold valid licenses. One of our potential drivers brought up a point I have never heard of:

Some lawyer must have recommended at some point that you shouldn't have your license on you while driving, because if you pass over your license to the police during an incident you admit you are guilty?

Never heard such thing! I keep shaking my head in disbelief? Has anybody come across this? Is this for real or an urban myth?

Thanks
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ashleywillson  
#2 Posted : 19 February 2015 15:13:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ashleywillson
I have some relevant experience here.

Under certain laws you are required to give your details to a constable, Road Traffic Act being one. This can be used to ensure you have valid insurances etc. It is not an admission of guilt to tell a police officer who you are. In fact, it is an offence not to tell a police officer who you are (in some circumstances). The handing over of a license simply shows who you are and that you have a license. Nothing more than that.

Urban Myth.
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johnmurray  
#3 Posted : 21 February 2015 12:01:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Police are entitled to ask for sight of your driving licence at any time.
If you do not have it with you, you may be asked (and probably will be) to produce it at a police station of your choosing within seven days. Note that your driving licence comprises TWO parts and you will need to show BOTH parts. You would [maybe] be surprised to be informed that many people have not updated their address on the licence after a move (an offence).
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bob youel  
#4 Posted : 21 February 2015 16:46:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

JM & AW are correct in that the police are entitled to ask for sight of your driving licence at any time

And just a point about driving licences; many of us [including me] still have the proper one piece driving licence that does not have any form of photo
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boblewis  
#5 Posted : 22 February 2015 09:08:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis
JohnMurray wrote:

Police are entitled to ask for sight of your driving licence at any time.
If you do not have it with you, you may be asked (and probably will be) to produce it at a police station of your choosing within seven days. Note that your driving licence comprises TWO parts and you will need to show BOTH parts. You would [maybe] be surprised to be informed that many people have not updated their address on the licence after a move (an offence).



John

The paper part has now been dispensed with. In theory all checks can now be done by the police electronically in a very short space of time both on foot (rarity:-)) or in vehicle. The details of part 2 which often were used to decide on possible penalty notice or other actions is no longer an issue. Just carry suitable identity evidence.
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johnmurray  
#6 Posted : 22 February 2015 10:27:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray
boblewis wrote:



John

The paper part has now been dispensed with. In theory all checks can now be done by the police electronically in a very short space of time both on foot (rarity:-)) or in vehicle. The details of part 2 which often were used to decide on possible penalty notice or other actions is no longer an issue. Just carry suitable identity evidence.


Not until 8-June-2015.
Current holders of the paper licence ONLY will be able to retain it until any change has to be made when the paper licence (if after 8-June-2015) will be replaced with a photo licence only.

I was stopped 3 months ago and the police electronics were not working, which is far from rare!
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johnmurray  
#7 Posted : 22 February 2015 13:47:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray
If you wish to check your licence detail:

https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

And: if you have recently changed anything that required you to send your licence to DVLA, I advise you to check your entitlements.
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bob youel  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2015 16:34:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel
According to a lawyer I know its only lawyers talk and noting is written in law. However your drivers need to know what to do in an emergency / event so as to protect themselves and/or the company

Personally I never carry any original documents (if lost its a pain getting new ones) unless I have to e.g. abroad
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David Bannister  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2015 16:42:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister
I thankfully live in a country where it is not obligatory to be carrying I/D at all times. Long may it remain so, otherwise the forces of evil will be winning.

I wanted to exchange some holiday cash yesterday and had to produce a passport and give my address. Why?

And before anyone says "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about" please avoid the temptation!
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bob youel  
#10 Posted : 23 February 2015 09:39:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel
Providing ID in this country when obtaining Euros etc. is not a legal requirement however companies [in my personal view] hide behind the law and use such info for marketing and info gathering purposes only

There are 5 travel shops on my main high street and all but one [the one is an independent] insist upon ID when exchanging money - The one that does not complies with the law and [by the way] pays the best rates

NB: I sat in a travel shop this week where the shop employee said that because of health and safety they could not give a customer a plastic bag!
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A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 23 February 2015 11:43:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel
‘Some lawyer must have recommended at some point that you shouldn't have your license on you while driving, because if you pass over your license to the police during an incident you admit you are guilty?’
The only place you can admit your guilt is in a court of law when the judge asks ‘Do you plead guilty or not guilty?’
I would really like to know where this stuff comes from!
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walker  
#12 Posted : 23 February 2015 11:52:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker
bob youel wrote:

NB: I sat in a travel shop this week where the shop employee said that because of health and safety they could not give a customer a plastic bag!


Wonder if it was the same one I sat in, where a 4ft high pile of travel brochures were stacked against the rear fire exit door.
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jarsmith83  
#13 Posted : 23 February 2015 12:55:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83
I cannot fathom this advice:

S50 anti-social behavior of police reform act 2002,

If the police reasonably believe you to be involved in anti social behavior [defined as behavior likely to cause Harassment Alarm or Distress -the same as the offence under s5 Public Order Act 1986] then your details can be demanded. This can include harassment/ alarm/ distress to the police, but police have a higher threshold than the average person. This is not a search power but a suspicion that you have caused a crime. Failure to give your name is an arrestable offence in itself, although such a prosecution should be tied to a s5 offence, otherwise it would seem to invalidate the reasonable belief (if the constable had reasonable belief, why isn't it being investigated.)

As rightly pointed out in a previous post, addresses etc can be obtained from the point of name etc being handed to the police officer regardless. Apart from providing name, address and date of birth, it is always wise to stay silent until a solicitor is present to ensure you so not incriminate yourself.
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jfw  
#14 Posted : 23 February 2015 18:43:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jfw
bob youel wrote:
Providing ID in this country when obtaining Euros etc. is not a legal requirement however companies [in my personal view] hide behind the law and use such info for marketing and info gathering purposes only

There are 5 travel shops on my main high street and all but one [the one is an independent] insist upon ID when exchanging money - The one that does not complies with the law and [by the way] pays the best rates

quote]

Getting your holiday money is actually covered by the EU Money Laundering regulations. Under this all transactions over 1000 Euros have to be recorded and government issue photo ID produced.

One off transactions under 1000 Euros do not require verification of the customer, unless its likely to become regular business, or there is evidence of several linked transactions. Even then the directive recommends due diligence of recording transactions and photo ID.

Looks like most High St travel shops adopt a blanket policy.

The one I use which has the best rates locally, required me to register as a customer. I only have to show ID if the transaction is over 1000 Euros and there is a limit of a max of 10,000 Euros in a 90 day window.
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Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 23 February 2015 20:55:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit
Couple of considerations:

1) Government advice at the time (similar time as "Clunk, Click...every trip") was not to have documents valuable to thieves available in you car (Registration, MOT, Insurance & Drivers Licence) as these could allow a thief to appear legitimate when selling on your car despite being contrary to presentation requirements so hence the "producer" as it has become known.

2) Thanks to the way organisations are ever so careful with documents (even the DVLA) it is not wise to hand over original documents without first holding a copy. Seem to recall a consumer programme where licences were lost by officialdom and when the individual applied for replacement got told there was "no record of entitlement to drive" so retake your test or they suddenly lost driving categories from their licences. Must have been around 2009 as this is the date of my digital copy.
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Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 23 February 2015 20:55:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit
Couple of considerations:

1) Government advice at the time (similar time as "Clunk, Click...every trip") was not to have documents valuable to thieves available in you car (Registration, MOT, Insurance & Drivers Licence) as these could allow a thief to appear legitimate when selling on your car despite being contrary to presentation requirements so hence the "producer" as it has become known.

2) Thanks to the way organisations are ever so careful with documents (even the DVLA) it is not wise to hand over original documents without first holding a copy. Seem to recall a consumer programme where licences were lost by officialdom and when the individual applied for replacement got told there was "no record of entitlement to drive" so retake your test or they suddenly lost driving categories from their licences. Must have been around 2009 as this is the date of my digital copy.
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