Rank: Forum user
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Is face fit training required when using FFP masks? I appreciate the need for face-to-face "face-fit" training when using Breathing Apparatus, but is this absolutely necessary for FFP?
We provide our operatives with FFP-3 fold flat disposable masks for occasional use when drilling or working in a dusty environment. Provided we issue them with instructions for use and how to fit the mask, e.g. to form part of a SSoW (the mask also comes with instructions), is additional training required?
Thank you for reading...
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Rank: Forum user
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Where RPE is used, it must be able to provide adequate protection for individual wearers. RPE can't protect the wearer if it leaks. A major cause of leaks is poor fit – tight-fitting facepieces need to fit the wearer’s face to be effective.
As people come in all sorts of shapes and sizes it is unlikely that one particular type or size of RPE facepiece will fit everyone. Fit testing will ensure that the equipment selected is suitable for the wearer (from HSE website - and also used in my companies current info pack on use of RPE)
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I'm afraid that whenever any type of 'dust mask' is used as a control measure then they have to be face fit tested according to COSHH.
It doesn't matter on the type of mask, if they don't fit correctly and have any gapping then they are as good as useless as a protection - the dusts/vapours will always take the path of least resistance and bypass the mask.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The issue is, with my experience, 50% of people or more may fail the face fit test with a disposable mask (due to design, face shape or fitting / straps and nose bridge).
As such if the mask is meant to providing protection against a potential health risk (drilling = silica / cancer, wood dust / cancer, asbestos?) then it is possible or even likely that the assumed protection given by the mask is well below the 10 or 20 protection factor you may be assuming you have.
If for example you have measured the concentration of your dust and determined you would require a FFP3 (20x WEL) to provide adequate protection to maintain inhaled concentrations below the relevent WEL, and the masks dont fit, it only takes a small gap to allow the dust laiden air in - and as with electricity the air will find the path of least resistance (the gap).
However, if the masks are protecting only against a nusiance dust, with no WEL, or you know the dust concentrations (and can prove) are well below the WEL, but workers for reasons of comfort (reduced temporary irritation) chose to wear a mask for their own comfort, then a face fit test would not be required, but this would be difficult to explain & prove to a HSE inspector.
TLDR, if you have highlighted a mask is necessary to protect your workers, you must make sure it fits.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: New forum user
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We had difficulty with face fitting (beards etc) and subsequently half of the workforce would have required the use of an air fed mask. We now use adequate on tool extraction and LEV to reduce to ALARP the level of dust to below the WEL, our employees were involved in and appreciate the combined time effort and expense of the system we installed and we all benefit from it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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No question about it- if your risk assessment says that RPE of any sort is required to protect people from an identifiable hazard then some form of face fit testing is required. The legal requirement is under Reg 9 of Maintenance, Examination and Testing of Controls of COSHH-You have to be able to prove that the controls you are applying actually work.
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Rank: Super forum user
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FYI
There is a FFP3 'disposable' dust mask where only the filter is disposable. The filter lasts up to a month, dependant on wear and tear, dust levels, etc. Not only is it supposed to be more economical than normal disposable masks, I'm reliably told that it fits much better. For the life of me I cannot remember the product name!
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Rank:: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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How do you know the guy does the self-test every time? You can’t just issue a mask and tell them to get on with it. Masks are notoriously unreliable, people don’t’ wear them properly (or at all) etc which is why PPE is so low down on the hierarchy of controls. If you are issuing people with any sort of negative pressure face mask the users should carry some sort of self-test anyway, they should be confident that there are no leaks but if you don’t test it first with them, then you only have their word for it that it is working. The only RPE that does not require a face fit test is the positive pressure type.
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I'm always in 2 minds about any 'testing'. Be it face-fit , PAT or an MOT for a car. It's only good for the point it is done.
Q - If you face fit all your staff and train them to fit the mask properly, how do you know they are doing it in the field? A - You don't.
You can't stand over them everytime they wear it and check.
So what use is testing? Other than to satisfy a 'rule' and avoid liability. Kind of misses the point of protecting staff doesn't it?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Face fit testing establishes two things: 1. That the mask selected ,if it is worn correctly, will provide them an effective level of protection 2. It is an opportunity to talk to individual staff and make sure that they know why they are wearing RPE and how to put it on correctly. I have often come across people who do not know how to put on RPE properly but with a bit of help can be shown how to fit to their own face. I do not understand the resistance to face fit testing. Remember this mask is all that stands between an individual and a hazardous substance. If it is not fitted correctly you might as well just ask them to hold their breath while they are doing the job.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Except that in most cases failures are due to mask size, face shape or facial hair, as such regardless of what the user does the mask is not suitable, in these cases it highlights the need for alternative masks or that the user must be clean shaven.
In the analgy of a car MOT, it would be a test to make sure you car has an engine and can even start, not that it is road worthy just on that day.
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Rank: New forum user
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I agree, he builders masks (FFP 3) are pretty much hit and miss, they are designed predominantly for short term i.e once, (take it off or drop the mask below the chin temporarily like a lot of operatives do, then there is a high chance that the inside of the mask will collect minute particulates (even when dust suppression is used). at £ 40 + per box it is an expensive option.
Silicone half face masks like the Sunstrom ranges with the relevant cartridge filter would be more cost effective, the cartridge lasts for circa 28 days (keeping it fitted to the mask) and the mask needs to be inspected regularly for defects. All the guys have to do is wet wipe the inside before they use it and they are more or less good to go.
formal Face fitting is a requirement for all types of RPE if required and is only done once for the make and model chosen. Another face fit is carried out either annually, when a different make/model of face mask is introduced or when there is distinctive changes to the facial features (loss or increase of weight etc....) The most important thing is that you need to keep up to date records. I know of a few improvement notices that have been issued whereby guys have been face fitted on one type of mask and were wearing another.
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Rank: New forum user
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Descarte8 wrote:Except that in most cases failures are due to mask size, face shape or facial hair, as such regardless of what the user does the mask is not suitable, in these cases it highlights the need for alternative masks or that the user must be clean shaven.
In the analgy of a car MOT, it would be a test to make sure you car has an engine and can even start, not that it is road worthy just on that day. With the current trends of full beards being popular as they are, you would have thought that there were readily available systems in place for these guys, I presume that these would be hoods with an forced air system. my stance at the moment, no face fit - no use of potential dust generating tools
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Rank: Super forum user
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There are!
Most major mask manufacturers already have air feb, battery powered systems just for this reason.
AH2 & AH3 systems giving 20 and 40x apf which even makes them higher level of protection than a P3 mask.
Add in the cooling effect and comfort of not have a rubber mask stuck to you face for 8 hours, as well as being able to provide all levels of eye / face protection (from light eye to grinding / welding!) as well as optionally as a hard hat, they are a serious contender for replacing the whole mask industry.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Descarte8 wrote:There are!
Most major mask manufacturers already have air feb, battery powered systems just for this reason.
AH2 & AH3 systems giving 20 and 40x apf which even makes them higher level of protection than a P3 mask.
Add in the cooling effect and comfort of not have a rubber mask stuck to you face for 8 hours, as well as being able to provide all levels of eye / face protection (from light eye to grinding / welding!) as well as optionally as a hard hat, they are a serious contender for replacing the whole mask industry. I agree with Descartes. Positive pressure hoods are a very good alternative to disposal masks but people see them and think that they are expensive (£100-200 apiece) but remember that disposables are just that and you should be changing them at least every shift ( £4.00 quid each). I suspect that a lot of people get one at the beginning of the week and keep it until it starts to fall apart and only then do they change it.
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Rank: New forum user
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Can anybody recommend any positive air systems (Hoods), basically the guys are using disc cutters, the way we are going at the moment with beards, no one will be allowed to used the thing. The other thing is that we will have to up rate our current Face Fit testing qual to include positive feed systems
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Rank: Super forum user
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What are they cutting and why do they need to wear masks at all?
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Rank: Super forum user
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aidy.best1 - you have a PM Chris
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Rank: Forum user
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Frank1970 wrote:Is face fit training required when using FFP masks? I appreciate the need for face-to-face "face-fit" training when using Breathing Apparatus, but is this absolutely necessary for FFP?
We provide our operatives with FFP-3 fold flat disposable masks for occasional use when drilling or working in a dusty environment. Provided we issue them with instructions for use and how to fit the mask, e.g. to form part of a SSoW (the mask also comes with instructions), is additional training required?
Thank you for reading... Frank, Speaking from experience of defending a Liability claim the fact that we carried out fit testing and have signed documents to show the employee had mask training has proven invaluable in defending the case. Jo
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Rank: Forum user
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Frank1970 wrote:Is face fit training required when using FFP masks? I appreciate the need for face-to-face "face-fit" training when using Breathing Apparatus, but is this absolutely necessary for FFP?
We provide our operatives with FFP-3 fold flat disposable masks for occasional use when drilling or working in a dusty environment. Provided we issue them with instructions for use and how to fit the mask, e.g. to form part of a SSoW (the mask also comes with instructions), is additional training required?
Thank you for reading... Frank, Speaking from experience of defending a Liability claim the fact that we carried out fit testing and have signed documents to show the employee had mask training has proven invaluable in defending the case. It also reinforces the message of why they are expected to wear the mask and helps with compliance of wearing them. I was met with resistance to begin with from managers but over period of time they have noticed a reduction in the amount of employees they have to speak to about wearing masks on a daily basis. I also carry out spot checks to make sure they are wearing the masks correctly and I talk to new starters after a few days to see if the message has sunk in. Good luck there is lots of info out there to get stuck into. Jo
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