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Bill6152  
#1 Posted : 05 March 2015 08:10:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bill6152

Morning All, can I ask what most people do for use of scissor lifts and using a harness. I am getting different messages from some training providers that we must insists that anyone using a scissor lift must wear a harness. Others saying no requirement to do so, others saying it depends what the risk assessment says?
frankc  
#2 Posted : 05 March 2015 09:07:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

Bill6152 wrote:
Morning All, can I ask what most people do for use of scissor lifts and using a harness. I am getting different messages from some training providers that we must insists that anyone using a scissor lift must wear a harness. Others saying no requirement to do so, others saying it depends what the risk assessment says?
Is there a suitable anchor point inside the scissor lift to attach to? Generally, there isn't.
Gav81  
#3 Posted : 05 March 2015 09:14:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gav81

Hi Bill For scissor lifts I don't usually insist on the wearing of a safety harness unless there is an activity after risk assessment that would require the use of one. I know some company's say that they insist on operators wearing one to restrict them from climbing/stepping on handrails to gain extra height, however active monitoring and proactive safety culture should ensure this practice doesn't occur. If the operative can't get to the correct height using the scissor lift, I would also suggest that it is not the correct equipment for the task. The HSE state that safe working on scissor lifts would negate the need for a safety harness, as they only manoeuvre up and down. However a cherry pickers or boom type MEWP's move in all directions and can become a 'catapult' if they come into contact with obstacles etc. So as a general rule I would only say that they are needed for cherry pickers and boom type MEWP's.
SHV  
#4 Posted : 05 March 2015 09:35:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SHV

Bill This one is subjective issue and i would say follow best practices if you can..if you are 100% sure there is no job beyond the handrails which need to climb up.. no need to insist SHV
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 05 March 2015 09:56:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I recall reading some HSE guidance that said somethig to the effect that a harness is not normally required in a scissor lift. It is designed to carry people and unlike the a MEWP with a boom a scissor lift cannot articulate and throw people out of the basket. There may be exceptions of course e.g. if the ground was not stable or flat. I had a jobsworth once tell me that people should be clipped on in a scissor lift on my project. Apparently they had gone of a course for working with MEWPs. Ahh, I love an 'expert'. So I said "tell me when is the only time you would not expect to wear a harness when using a cherry picker or simialr type of MEWP"? They could not give me the answer. "When working over water my friend - goodbye."
John M  
#6 Posted : 05 March 2015 10:15:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

Ray This guy may not be a "Jobsworth" as you describe him/her. There are two trains of thought on harness wearing in Scissor Lifts. Some sites insist on harness wearing whilst in the air (from fully retracted position) whilst others insist on harness wearing only when lift is in travel (wheeled) mode. We have some the largest ever made lifts on our site (Cat. A) where the latter is adopted. As is always - Read the Manufacturer's Manual. Jon
boblewis  
#7 Posted : 05 March 2015 10:39:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

This has come up many times and I still cannot think of a proper reason to use a harness on scissor lifts. If the ground is unstable - why on earth are you traversing it? If they scissor cannot be at a suitable height for work why are you using it?
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 05 March 2015 11:00:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

John M wrote:
Ray This guy may not be a "Jobsworth" as you describe him/her. There are two trains of thought on harness wearing in Scissor Lifts. Some sites insist on harness wearing whilst in the air (from fully retracted position) whilst others insist on harness wearing only when lift is in travel (wheeled) mode. We have some the largest ever made lifts on our site (Cat. A) where the latter is adopted. As is always - Read the Manufacturer's Manual. Jon
Indeed Jon, I fully appreciate there are exceptions - there always is. As you say you need to check out the kit, manufacturer's instructions and of course, that wonderful RA everyone keeps harping on about; but is usually generic and not worth the paper it's written on.
JohnW  
#9 Posted : 05 March 2015 13:39:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

I can't recall ever insisting on contractors wearing harnesses on a scissor lift but, in the risk assessment considerations, we always consider the risk of traffic collision, usually such an incident is unlikely as we would aim to maintain a barriered ~2 metre exclusion zone around the base. But some warehouse situations ...... Another consideration is harnesses can be worn to allow the contractors to lean out/over to reach (but still keeping both feet on the platform) to reduce number of times moving the unit (which requires up-and-down before moving).
JohnW  
#10 Posted : 05 March 2015 13:41:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

.... meant to say, if there is a risk of traffic collision, e.g. from an FLT or a car in say a car park, we would ask contractor to wear harness
Rob Harnett  
#11 Posted : 18 March 2021 19:47:57(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Rob Harnett

While this is a much covered debate, I personally find it quite a dangerous practice to wear a harness in a scissor lift, especially just to tick a company safety box, and for various other reasons, two of which are the chance of it getting caught on objects whilst working or travelling, and mainly the likelihood that should the machine tip over, the occupent will not be thrown clear and is more likely to be "pendulummed" underneath the falling machine and subsiquently crushed to death....I once witnessed such an incident!
peter gotch  
#12 Posted : 19 March 2021 11:15:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Rob - unsure why you would have unearthed this thread 6 years later.

However, guidance from the Health and Safety Executive, IPAF and others does not usually include a recommendation for the use of harnesses in scissor lifts.

That said I am far from convinced by your logic. What you are effectively saying is that it would be OK for someone to be thrown down in the event of a scissor lift overturning. I think just as likely to be killed or maimed when hitting something in the way or when hitting the ground as from the scenario you present.

The guidance on this subject is generally founded on the principle that you should not be relying on PPE to protect against a vertical "MEWP" such as a scissor lift overturning. With PPE the outcome is likely to be severe. Without PPE ditto.

Argyll  
#13 Posted : 19 March 2021 19:31:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Argyll

Hello ,

I'm curious as to what the HSE's strength  requirements are for permanent fall arrest and/or fall restraint anchors? Across the pond here, permanent fall arrest anchors must withstand a 5,000 lb. (2,267.962 kg's -approximately..) load in any direction, and fall restrain anchors 800 lbs (362.874 kg's)  in any direction. I would think that is a near impossibility to achieve (at least for fall arrest) in a scissor lift. If the idea is to prevent the worker from actually free falling, as has been stated, they shouldn't be standing on anything but the deck anyway...if the manufacturer's guardrails are in place along wiht the chain or moveable bar used at the end of the scissor lift guardrail section to accomodate access, then we don't require anything more. If a worker was to wear a full body harness and connected lanyard and actually end up free-falling over the side of the platform (what the heck were they doing prior to that occurring?), then I would think that depending on the platform's height, they could bring the whole lift over with them on their way to the ground...

The most common misuse I've come across is workers (um.. ironworkers, to be specific), placing scaffold planks on the midrails so they can access flat trusses to do welding, as they can't raise the platform high enough to reach. None of them do that to elevate (excuse the pun) their risk of falling- but to get the job done. If the work platform was set up on the street and vehincal impacts were a concern, I think there are much better risk control options available that having them wear a fall arrest harness...

Just an opinion from across the pond...

Argyll      

peter gotch  
#14 Posted : 20 March 2021 11:00:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Argyll - the relevant EU standards are similar though measured in kN etc.

[We wait to see if some dinosaurs push for imperial units post Brexit!]

The guard-rail on a typical scissor lift even when new might well fail the tests, as it should be designed to withstand roughly two thirds of a person's body weight falling against it, with the force not being multiplied by the scenario where a person would be thrown against it when a MEWP collapses.

But HSE and IPAF do not recommend reliance on harnesses when using vertical MEWPs. 

Bigmac1  
#15 Posted : 07 April 2021 08:02:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Do not fall into the trap that some do, I have seen time and time again operators wearing harnesses in scissor lifts because it is company policy, then they forget to ask a hire company to supply a scissor lift with anchor points. So what do operators then do? Yes they clip on to handrails "because its company policy" and they dont want to get told off, pointless excercise and 1 which could offer a false sence of security leading to operator taking risks like over-reaching or they even become a distraction.

MrBrightside  
#16 Posted : 07 April 2021 08:50:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

Hi,

I have always viewed scissor lifts as being the same as a scaffold tower, be it just an automated one (Scissor lifts should not be moved at height) and we would never expect anyone to wear a harness and lanyard whilst working from a scaffold tower.

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