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meady  
#1 Posted : 11 March 2015 14:26:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
meady

Good afternoon We currently supply 3 types of ear protection for the factory 1. Foam disposable plugs 2. Banded hearing protectors 3. Ear muffs These vary in price up to about £8 per item. The question that I have is if an employee requests to use a different, more expensive type of ear protection e.g. moulded ear plugs, is it possible and legal that the company asks the employee to incur the additional cost and reimburse the person a maximum of £8 (The highest cost that the company pays for ear protection).... The company is supplying various types of protection to cover different peoples needs but some people are choosing to purchase their own ear protection. This leaves the company open to liability claims in the future as we have no control or proof that these offer the necessary protection. In this case would it be simply to get those employees using their own protection to sign a disclaimer or can the company prohibit the use of these and ensure that the more expensive ear protection is brought from a trusted source e.g. a specific PPE website. Any information will be great..... Thanks
toffee wrapper  
#2 Posted : 11 March 2015 14:47:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
toffee wrapper

Hi meady IMHO I would steer clear of a disclaimer as these carry little weight down the line, instead get the operator to put in writing WHY they don't like using the current approved model, and why they feel the need to wear a different type. If their selection of protection is up to the standard as specified in your RA, then yes allow them to wear them. Then ensure your RA is updated to include the new models. If a different type is required for any medical reason (backed up with medical evidence) then you supply them - free of charge. However if the choice is purely based on style or looks, then any cost above the specified, approved and supplied ear defence can be charged. Up to a reasonable and agreed amount . But until the RA has been assessed and changed, ensure they all stick with the supplied ones. toffee wrapper
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 11 March 2015 14:50:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

In the first instance I would try to establish why employees are using their own hearing protection rather than that provided by the company. There is probably a good reason. Strictly speaking you cannot charge or impose a levy on employees for PPE. Although it is common practice to provide up to a certain amount for footwear where for some reasons the employee finds it difficult to wear the standard issue. A disclaimer is not worth the paper it's written on. You could prohibit the use of non-approved PPE, but you need to consider my first paragraph. You could also consult your employees to establish what type of hearing protection works best, which is the most comfortable to wear given the task, etc. Then offer a choice based on your consultation exercise - this is most likely the solution I suggest.
stuie  
#4 Posted : 11 March 2015 21:32:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stuie

We are going though a phased plan of issuing all employees with moulded plugs at a cost of about £85/pair. We do get employees to sign an agreement (not sure if it would be enforceable if pushed) that if they voluntarily leave within 12 months of having the plugs then we can recover the cost. We do not charge them at point of issue. We did some simple calc's and for us the decision to swap from the disposable foam plugs was a financial benefit (life span of 5 yrs or more for moulded) as well as the comfort of knowing that the plugs were in properly. We still offer the over ear and foam if people are adamant that they dont want moulded. HTH Stu
meady  
#5 Posted : 12 March 2015 07:58:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
meady

Hi everyone Thanks for that, I will stay away from the whole disclaimer issue. The agreement that Stuie suggested sounds good though. Might see if we can work that into our policy somewhere. Yesterday I found a site that allows users to mould their own ear plugs themselves.... http://www.allearplugs.c...d-your-own-earplugs.aspx Going to trial these to see how good they are and keep a record so that if a person loses one pair they get a 'yellow card' and then if they lose another pair then the company goes down the disciplinary route....as the plugs are relatively cheap in comparison I believe that we can work it that way. We still have the problem that some people have been here 30 years and are part of the furniture. They don't want to wear ear defenders and point blank refuse.....but that's for management to figure out! Thanks again
Ian Bell  
#6 Posted : 12 March 2015 08:07:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

Quote We still have the problem that some people have been here 30 years and are part of the furniture. They don't want to wear ear defenders and point blank refuse.....but that's for management to figure out! They probably already have hearing loss..... so apart from protecting what hearing they have left, it seems a bit late to provide/force them to wear hearing protection. Hand over to HR, if they refuse to wear hearing protection and all other reasonable measures have been taken to reduce/control the noise, then discipline measures are next.
meady  
#7 Posted : 12 March 2015 08:28:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
meady

Ian Bell wrote:
Quote They probably already have hearing loss..... so apart from protecting what hearing they have left, it seems a bit late to provide/force them to wear hearing protection. This one guy in particular says he has perfect hearing and he knows this because the nurse that the company gets in to carry out health checks (as the factory is loud and hazardous) has told him....... I thought he was joking when he told me that but unfortunately he was serious! Just another thought.... Would it be possible/legal for the company to supply a pair of moulded ear plugs and get a signed agreement from employees that if they lose them then they have to pay for replacements? Does anyone do this? Thanks
bob youel  
#8 Posted : 12 March 2015 09:01:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

further to your comment and teh great comments already made ""--- get employees to sign an agreement --- that if they voluntarily leave within 12 months of having the plugs then we can recover the cost"" I do not think that you can do this noting HSWA especially so as your finance people will have already set/recovered the cost against tax anyway as is accountancy practice I know of a case [true] where the individual employee [from Heywood Lancs] concerned did not go to the HSE upon leaving the company who had such ideas in place but went to the local tax man instead who went down hard [much harder than the HSE can do] on the company and it cost the company many hard sleepless hours. The IR going down hard is not as unusual as people think because the one entity that all companies are afraid of is tax and notably the tax people have not been decimated as the HSE workforce has best of luck
walker  
#9 Posted : 12 March 2015 09:16:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Putting aside the PPE issues What steps are you taking to reduce the noise levels?
Steve Granger  
#10 Posted : 12 March 2015 09:55:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Granger

I see no reason why you cannot allow employees to use their own PPE PROVIDING it meets with YOUR specification (sorry to emphasis). This is done with PPE such as boots and safety glasses so as long as it is managed properly no problem. The requirement is for you to provide etc and ensure it is suitable and worn. If the employee gets them made up, then get the specification from the manufacturers to see what they are claiming in terms of noise reduction. A proper policy and always having 'the company brand' ppe as a reserve should enable them to function properly and safely with their own gear. Replacement is the same - here is ours or you get the same spec and pay the difference. This is wholly compliant with the employers duty. A note of caution - I have moulded ear pieces for my bike - one set is plain but the other has in built speakers for my Ipod.... specify that any moulded type do not have speakers unless this is tolerable (eg for radio communication plug in). Otherwise it is 110dB AC/DC which assist my riding style considerably :<)
bob youel  
#11 Posted : 13 March 2015 07:58:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

and ensure that you know what the noise levels etc. are so the correct PPE can be got
meady  
#12 Posted : 13 March 2015 11:06:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
meady

Hi thanks for the comments. I contacted the HSE and they have advised that the company should supply the original PPE and one set of replacement PPE. The company can then charge for any additional replacements if the employee loses them. I have asked for that to be sent to me in writing!
johnanthonyscott  
#13 Posted : 18 March 2015 20:09:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnanthonyscott

Hi, We currently supply moulded ear plugs to workers but only if they have been recommended by our occupational health department. the ear plugs themselves cost £50 but are considered good value.
bob youel  
#14 Posted : 19 March 2015 18:30:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

did the HSE really say "The company can then charge for any additional replacements if the employee loses them?".
meady  
#15 Posted : 20 March 2015 07:39:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
meady

Hi Bob The response I got, amongst a lot of waffle, was.... Answer from specialist You cannot charge for PPE unless the employee is negligent. From my previous chats to them we determined that the company must pay/supply the original items and a replacement if required. Then, if the replacements get lost, the company can charge for the 3rd set of PPE as it will be deemed that the employee is negligent. Hopefully if one set ever gets lost then the warning shots will be fired and that will be enough to stop anymore being lost. We may decide to simply go down the disciplinary route instead of trying to deduct pay from employees instead but that's a decision which is above me.....thankfully
ashleywillson  
#16 Posted : 20 March 2015 08:27:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ashleywillson

walker wrote:
Putting aside the PPE issues What steps are you taking to reduce the noise levels?
I like this comment. I think we would all do well to remember PPE is to reduce residual risk after all other controls. I'm sure this has been considered but it was certainly worth an ask!!
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