Rank: New forum user 
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One of our clients, a fairly large contractor is insisting on RAMS being specific (I'm all for that). I have asked, that before I submit them, for a copy of his construction phase plan, and an asbestos survey for each of the 3 schemes we are to work on. They seem reluctant to provide the asbestos survey. And also say well... the cpp is on site come and look at it here. (well ok - I can live with that).
Would someone confirm the breaches of law by not providing an asbestos survey for the relevant parts of the building.
CAR 2012
CDM reg 9, and 10?
HASAW S3
Help gratefully received.
Thanks in advance, pc
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I think you are spot on. You should be provided with al the relevant information you require with regards to hazards, including any known asbestos surveys or asbestos register. Where does the CDM-C fit in this process?
Incidentally, the whole idea of a CPP is to provide it to interested parties so that they can have full understanding of the risks, nature and sequencing of the work. How are you supposed to provide site specific RAMS when you have not been provided all the necessary information?
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Rank: New forum user
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Thank you RayRapp, I guess if I visit site, I always like to, I'll get the name of the CDM-C from the cpp. I think they may be one of those ghost-type local authority in-house types; the ones you never see or hear from.
I agree re cpp - I'm often told that I'm the only contractor who ever asks for a copy.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Regulation 5 and 11 and possible 12 of the Management Regs 1999.
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Rank: Super forum user
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pcpaul, regarding access to asbestos survey, CAR Reg 4 (9)c says: Quote:
ensure that information about the location and condition of any asbestos or any such substance is—
(i) provided to every person liable to disturb it
The ACoP goes into great lengths about providing information, and this would include the asbestos survey..... .... but rather than have the survey 'available' on site the ACoP says things like: Quote:
Create a record of the locations where the assessment indicates ACMs are present or presumed to be present. The written record should include an accurate drawing of the premises and the main features of each room and passageways should be marked on it
So you can demand more than just a survey document JohnW
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Rank: New forum user
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Thank you John and Toe, seems to have sorted itself out now. The softly, softly approach worked on this occasion. A quiet word seemed to do the trick. An asbestos survey is being carried out Monday!
A slight aside, these are all criminal offences?
pc
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Rank: Super forum user
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pcpaul, Starting work on a site where there is suspicion of asbestos containing materials breaches CAR 4(3) Quote:
(3) In order to manage the risk from asbestos in non-domestic premises, the dutyholder must ensure that a suitable and sufficient assessment is carried out as to whether asbestos is or is liable to be present in the premises.
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Rank: Super forum user
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pcpaul wrote:
A slight aside, these are all criminal offences?
pc
They are all regulatory offences i.e. criminal...but don't hold your breath expecting a prosecution!
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks John and Ray.
Ray - I won't be holding my breath but sometimes the threat can move things on.
My original post is sort of resolved now but, I assume that the Client, remains ultimately responsible for providing asbestos information to the Principal Contractor. Does the PC become a duty holder for the duration of the works?
This does all become vague to me as the properties here housing stock and the landlord is the local authority - they will not have surveys on each and every one of their 1000's of homes. However, I read the HSE 'Advisory note on the refurbishment of housing stock likely to contain asbestos'. That an R&D survey is necessary before any work being carried out on the fabric of the building.
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Rank: Super forum user
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There can only be one PC on a project, if it is the same PC as is normally the case, then the PC is responsible for all h&s matters relating to the project during the life cycle of the project. The Client must provide information to the PC relating to hazards, including asbestos surveys, etc currently this should be done via the CDM-C but soon to change to the Principal Designer.
LAs should have an asbestos register for all their properties. However in many cases this is a Management type survey which is not suitable for construction work, hence the R&D survey needs to be carried out. In the case of large numbers of similar archytypes, a sampling strategy can be used on the proviso it complies with the criteria in HSG264.
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Rank: Forum user
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PCPaul,
I would recommend that you look at the case of HSE -v- MWH, which was about this very topic. No action by the HSE against the client.
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