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Steven n  
#1 Posted : 17 April 2015 10:23:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steven n

I have got my own opinion on this but sanity check required.

IP cuts finger on Thursday before Easter weekend, it gets treated at the onsite medical but he goes to A+E as a precaution (where he basically gets told he is wasting time, no stitches just redressed). IP returns to work on Tuesday after bank hols. He works normal duties (normal duties being keywords) for a couple of hours but cut opens up and he has pain in hand and arm, he gets it redressed by onsite medical centre but goes back to A+E, he gets a sick note for seven days and goes off again but returns on the Monday.

The way I see it he was off for 4 days returned to work as normal then went off for 5 days and returned to work i.e. no period over 7 days, no RIDDOR. Is there anything stating how long he needs to have returned for prior to going off again (if there is I can't see it)?
Sunstone  
#2 Posted : 17 April 2015 10:53:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Scotty C

If he has not been off for more than 7 consecutive days, I would think not reportable.
ashleywillson  
#3 Posted : 17 April 2015 10:57:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ashleywillson

It is consecutive days so at the moment, no.
brig83  
#4 Posted : 17 April 2015 10:57:12(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
brig83

Steven, I work in the offshore industry and we follow the IADC guidelines when it comes to incident reporting and classification (which falls in line with RIDDOR requirements)

Here is a section of its Q&A document in regards to how long an employee needs off when recovering from an injury.

Question: How is an employer to determine whether an employee has “recovered completely” from a previous injury or illness such that a later injury or illness of the same type affecting the same part of the body resulting from an event or exposure at work is a “new case” (incident)?

If an employee’s signs and symptoms disappear for a day and then resurface the next day, should the employer conclude that the later signs and symptoms represent a new case?

Answer: An employee has “recovered completely” from a previous injury or illness, when he or she is fully healed or cured. The employer must use his best judgment based on factors such as the passage of time since the symptoms last occurred and the physical appearance of the affected part of the body. If the signs and symptoms of a previous injury disappear for a day only to reappear the following day, that is strong evidence the injury has not properly healed. The employer may, but is not required to, consult a physician or other licensed health care provider (PLHCP). Where the employer does consult a PLHCP to determine whether an employee has recovered completely from a prior injury or illness, it must follow the PLHCP’s recommendation. In the event the employer receives recommendations from two or more PLHCPs, the employer may decide which recommendation is the most authoritative and record the case based on that recommendation.

Not sure whether that helps or not. Also is the sick note from the A&E or did the injured party write his own?

Also you wouldn't count the time away from work on the day of the incident is not considered in determining Lost Time Incidents (LTI). Time spent traveling, undergoing evaluation, awaiting medical evaluation results, or otherwise seeking medical treatment should not be counted as a Lost Time Incident (LTI) when considering LTI classification.
walker  
#5 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:08:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

As a taxpayer, I believe people going to A&E with trivia like this ought to be put in stocks an pelted with rotten fruit.
Xavier123  
#6 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:24:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

I don't disagree with the other posters...but just want to, again, highlight that there is often a large focus on the nature of the injury etc. in isolation from the rest of the tests that need to be applied concerning RIDDOR.


The occurrence of an injury at work is not the test to apply. There must have been an accident leading to that injury to which a work activity played a significant contributing role. All definitions are (slightly) better described on the HSE RIDDOR microsite.

I'm quite happy to make assumptions that there was a work-related accident in this incident as cuts don't spontaneously happen but thought I'd just flag that issue as it is often the one that is brushed (but also argued) over on these forums.
Steven n  
#7 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:32:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steven n

briangallagheruk1@hotmail.com wrote:
Steven, I work in the offshore industry and we follow the IADC guidelines when it comes to incident reporting and classification (which falls in line with RIDDOR requirements)

Here is a section of its Q&A document in regards to how long an employee needs off when recovering from an injury.

Question: How is an employer to determine whether an employee has “recovered completely” from a previous injury or illness such that a later injury or illness of the same type affecting the same part of the body resulting from an event or exposure at work is a “new case” (incident)?

If an employee’s signs and symptoms disappear for a day and then resurface the next day, should the employer conclude that the later signs and symptoms represent a new case?

Answer: An employee has “recovered completely” from a previous injury or illness, when he or she is fully healed or cured. The employer must use his best judgment based on factors such as the passage of time since the symptoms last occurred and the physical appearance of the affected part of the body. If the signs and symptoms of a previous injury disappear for a day only to reappear the following day, that is strong evidence the injury has not properly healed. The employer may, but is not required to, consult a physician or other licensed health care provider (PLHCP). Where the employer does consult a PLHCP to determine whether an employee has recovered completely from a prior injury or illness, it must follow the PLHCP’s recommendation. In the event the employer receives recommendations from two or more PLHCPs, the employer may decide which recommendation is the most authoritative and record the case based on that recommendation.

Not sure whether that helps or not. Also is the sick note from the A&E or did the injured party write his own?

Also you wouldn't count the time away from work on the day of the incident is not considered in determining Lost Time Incidents (LTI). Time spent traveling, undergoing evaluation, awaiting medical evaluation results, or otherwise seeking medical treatment should not be counted as a Lost Time Incident (LTI) when considering LTI classification.


I would be inclined to agree with this if the cut was not so minor (if it had been me I would have been embarrassed to show the Missus never mind a Nurse. If it had been stitched etc. I would have been reporting all the way, we have not much to gain and everything to lose by not reporting so am firmly in the camp of if unsure report.
Steven n  
#8 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:34:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steven n

Xavier123 wrote:
I don't disagree with the other posters...but just want to, again, highlight that there is often a large focus on the nature of the injury etc. in isolation from the rest of the tests that need to be applied concerning RIDDOR.


The occurrence of an injury at work is not the test to apply. There must have been an accident leading to that injury to which a work activity played a significant contributing role. All definitions are (slightly) better described on the HSE RIDDOR microsite.

I'm quite happy to make assumptions that there was a work-related accident in this incident as cuts don't spontaneously happen but thought I'd just flag that issue as it is often the one that is brushed (but also argued) over on these forums.


Hi Xavier, fully agree that the cause of the injury must absolutely be taken into account e.g. is it WORK related. In this case a definite yes albeit a mountain out of a molehill...
Steven n  
#9 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:38:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steven n

walker wrote:
As a taxpayer, I believe people going to A&E with trivia like this ought to be put in stocks an pelted with rotten fruit.


Fully agree Walker, I had a home accident last year (I know we are not supposed to get hurt and are invincible etc...), I had nine stitches in my finger and felt like I was a burden yet a young lady I was sat with got home hair dye in her eye and it was "stinging a bit"
hilary  
#10 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:42:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Most hair dyes contain ammonia - getting this in your eyes is quite serious and can lead to permanent damage so it shouldn't be regarded as secondary to a cut finger. The young lady was totally right to go to A&E.
walker  
#11 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:46:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Steven N wrote:


if the cut was not so minor (if it had been me I would have been embarrassed to show the Missus never mind a Nurse.) quote]

Sounds to me like he is having a extra paid holiday
His line manager ought to be talking to HR
Steven n  
#12 Posted : 17 April 2015 11:48:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steven n

I am not trying to belittle her in any way, I was sat next to her for nearly 4 hours, I even read the box she had with her the guidance said if it gets in eyes rinse thoroughly with water. I would have thought getting a little run off in the eyes when doing a home dye was inevitable but then again I have never dyed my hair.
hilary  
#13 Posted : 17 April 2015 12:52:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

General rule of thumb is to avoid contact with eyes and skin and a lot of people use vaseline around the hairline to prevent dye running. They are pretty good dyes these days but I certainly wouldn't want them in my eyes. Mind you, if she was able to sit there for 4 hours then she probably didn't need to be there.
Sunstone  
#14 Posted : 17 April 2015 13:34:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Scotty C

Steven N wrote:
Xavier123 wrote:
I don't disagree with the other posters...but just want to, again, highlight that there is often a large focus on the nature of the injury etc. in isolation from the rest of the tests that need to be applied concerning RIDDOR.


The occurrence of an injury at work is not the test to apply. There must have been an accident leading to that injury to which a work activity played a significant contributing role. All definitions are (slightly) better described on the HSE RIDDOR microsite.

I'm quite happy to make assumptions that there was a work-related accident in this incident as cuts don't spontaneously happen but thought I'd just flag that issue as it is often the one that is brushed (but also argued) over on these forums.


Hi Xavier, fully agree that the cause of the injury must absolutely be taken into account e.g. is it WORK related. In this case a definite yes albeit a mountain out of a molehill...


Eh? Sorry if I'm being obtuse but the OP asked about RIDDOR in relation to time off etc. I didn't think the fact that it was work related is/was up for debate? As it stands, he has not had more than 7 days off sick as a result (or been unable to undertake his full range of normal duties for the same time period), therefore, as it stands just now, not reportable.
Xavier123  
#15 Posted : 17 April 2015 15:45:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Nah, you're not being obtuse. I was conscious I was stepping a little off the OP and was trying to word my response with that in mind.
toe  
#16 Posted : 17 April 2015 20:45:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Does the HSE want to know (or even care) that a person cut his finger at work. Again we should conscious of the spirit of the law not necessarily the letter of the law.

Just to give my view point - not reportable.
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