Rank: Forum user
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Please can I have some advice on a stress risk assessment for the general election.
In short, staff at Poll Stations are potentially going to be put in a position where they have a legal obligation to lie to voters. To me this seems likely to induces stress, so have no idea how one could actually be signed off.
There is statutory guidance that means the only advice Poll staff can administer is to read out the words on the top of the ballot paper. This says "Vote for one candidate only".
However, all voters have an option to spoil their ballot and all Poll Station staff should know this.
So, if an uneducated voter (and there are many) asks "I want to vote and take part in the process but do not wish to vote for any specific candidate. Is there any way that I can take part?" The only advice the staff can offer is to read the ballot paper, which means they can not advise them of their option to spoil their ballot.
This seems like the only options are to break Electoral legislation and give the correct guidance or break the HSWA by forcing them to lie.
Any suggestions welcome (or oneway tickets to an isolated location)
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Rank: Super forum user
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DNTH
As a former OSH adviser to a local authority and someone who has run almost 30 polling stations over as many years I'm bemused by your posting. Can you cite the legislation or guidance which specifies what advice polling station staff can or cannot give to voters?
If any voter were to ask a question of the sort you mention, it's reasonable and acceptable for staff to explain to them that they should only put a cross against the candidate of their choice. Furthermore, they can be told that if they choose to put comments or other inappropriate markings on their ballot paper this would render it invalid during the subsequent count process and thus make their visit to the polling station a waste of time. In practice, although voters are advised to mark their ballot papers with a simple diagonal cross, there have been various court decisions over the years about what sorts of marks on ballot papers are acceptable or otherwise for them to be classed as valid. For example a tick - and possibly even a smiley - instead of a cross is classed as valid. The main gist of the decisions is about whether or not voters have clearly indicated the candidate of their choice.
Also, what on earth has prompted you to seek or consider a stress risk assessment for polling station staff? Working at a polling station can be certainly be tiring at times but hardly stressful. Despite the increasing uptake of postal votes, the polling hours for local elections were increased some years to 15 hours (between 7am and 10pm) to match those of general elections. Furthermore, as people who work at polling stations have opted to do such work, they are not having to endure the work or conditions against their will. This includes exemption from working hours legislation.
Though I can't vouch for arrangements elsewhere, I've always found that staff engaged by my local authority do get ample advice and support about ensuring reasonable safety and working conditions for voters and themselves at polling stations, e.g. safe access and egress, plus adequate lighting and heating of the venues used. However, by their nature, temporary so-called 'mobile stations' in portacabins or caravans used in areas where other accommodation is not available can be problematic. Depending on the weather and time of day, they can be chilly inside because the opening of doors tends to counteract whatever form of heating is provided, especially during windy weather. By contrast, they can be like ovens inside during warm weather, so staff try and take breaks outside as and when they can during lulls in visits by voters. Therefore, staff working in such stations should go especially prepared as regards clothing and drinks, etc.
Time to send this response off now and hopefully try to beat the imminent stampede of responses from other forum users ! :-)
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Rank: Forum user
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I'm not clear what you mean by "break the HSWA by forcing them to lie"
What am I missing here?
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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There's a reason this post has 245 views, but only four responses - two of them offering no advice (mine included!)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Until proven otherwise assume that this is one of Norwegian friends (=a troll) talking
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Rank: Super forum user
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And an IOSH Member...............................
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Rank: Forum user
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Please accept my apologies for the delay in reply.
I got distracted with the same post in a linked in forum and forgot that this one existed as well.
I do laugh at you calling me a troll... "one mans ceiling is another mans floor".... my reply follows
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Rank: Forum user
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I would like to rule out a few issues that have come up else where that are a distraction and agree on some others things that no longer need to be discussed as a means to keep to the point (please do feel free to challenge them though, but dont mix them up with other arguments.
Lets all agree that people do have an option to spoil their ballot paper.
Lets all agree that Poll Staff should be aware of this OPTION
Let us not debate how ethical these people may be and how often they choose to lie
Let us not debate the external influences that pressure people into taking jobs.
Let us focus on Carl’s question: Why do they need to lie.
Before i move onto that I would like to clear up one issue. As a lowly Tech member I do appreciate that i have much to learn, but Chris has raised the issue of what Stress has to do with the Management Regs. My understanding is that the Management Regs require you to be able to demonstrate through your management approach that you are complying with the H&SWA. Chris also posed the question of what “controls with you magically come up with”. Which is kind of my whole point.
Since my last post I have looked through the H&SWA and couldn’t find the specific schedule that references that Stress must be assessed, so I would welcome some clarity on that too.
But if there is a legal requirement to conduct a risk assessment relating to stress, and we are knowingly unable to create any controls that can mitigate the stress, and that the stress has a real potential to a cause significant hazard. Would there not be an obligation to stop the activity or change the process? (Q1)
The question then moves closer to Carl’s “why do they need to lie”, but before going to that would like to address what a significant hazard. It has been mentioned that this event takes place very infrequently, but the question of how frequently it may happen on the day and what magnitude or impact it will have on the individual staff has not.
before we consider whether or not this particular incident forces people to lie, do you think that knowingly placing the number of staff that we are talking about (i dont know the numbers) in a situation where they are occasionally forced to provide ‘deceptive’ advice, although they have no ‘intention’ to deceive as part of their job, is compatible with the stress related legislation we currently have? (Q2) Because if the answer to this is ‘yes’ I need to start another question.
As Jeff points out (much appreciated), and i have used above, a Lie is where there is intention to deceive, and that is different to following an instruction. While that is true, Nazi SS Officers are still being bought to trial for carrying out instructions. While clearly very different in some ways, my aim is to indicate that simply carrying out instructions can be morally wrong.
So unless someone can provide some strong counter evidence i will now explain why staff will be placed in this position where there is a conflict between their intention and the outcome.
The Electoral Commission guidance to staff in Section 5 p.15 says “some voters may still find the instructions unclear… In these circumstance the Presiding Officer the instructions printed at the top of the ballot paper and the details of the candidates in the order that they appear on the ballot paper.” http://www.electoralcomm...ation-handbook-UKPGE.pdf
This says “Vote for one candidate only only by putting a cross [X] in the box next to your choice”.
The following is an email from the Electoral Service Manager at Lewisham Council. Whole sentences have been removed but no other editing has been done.
Dear Malcolm
If a voter askes “I am looking for advice on how to vote, can I spoil my ballot paper?”
What official response should they get?
Dear David
Thank you for your further email of the 23 April. I can only repeat what was said in my earlier e-mail of the 17 April
It is not permissible for staff employed in polling stations to advise voters how to mark their ballot papers, save to read the instructions at the top of the ballot paper, as you have remarked. That does not prevent an elector making a choice to spoil their paper howsoever they may wish.
Electoral Services Manager
London Borough of Lewisham
Direct: 020 8314 6907
http://www.lewisham.gov.uk
So, does this situation have any resemblance to the one addressed in Q2?
Does this situation have any resemblance to the one addressed in Q1?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I'm with Graham B above.
Having served as a Presiding officer a number of times there were many occasions when much more detailed discussions with voters took place and this was within the training/guidance given to me.
Tellers were also able to discuss issues with voters about a relevant range of issues too. Not limited to the one liner you referred to.
As for the stress issues you highlight this is a complete red [or dead] herring. There was no legal requirement for a specific risk assessment on stress. Potential risks were already covered whilst setting up the polling station-access, temperature, food and drink as it was a long day and others relating to normal office situations during the long day's activities.
I always found that it was a low-ish stress day and was very encouraged by the enthusiasm of young first time voters in particular and helping disabled voters even marking a voting slip for a disabled Conservative voter! Many tellers found it a 'fun' day!-often council workers with a day off from their usual work.
No need for lying at all.
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Rank: Super forum user
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PS For Teller read poll clerks-ooops
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Rank: Forum user
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Mike, thanks for your reply
But I have, in no uncertain terms, in the form a letter from the electoral services manager, advice to say the "only guidance staff are allowed to give out is to point to the signage and read out the ballot" in response to the direct question of "can i spoil my ballot".
As far as i can see this leaves only 2 options, knowingly misleading voters or breaking direct instructions about the conduct of the election.
Neither of which are particularly palatable.
PS is there any way to get a notification when a reply is added?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi again
I shall just have to disagree with the Electoral Services Manager at Lewisham-seems like a very rigid response to me.
Regards
Mike
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Rank: Forum user
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I am clearly missing something. Who are Carl, Chris and Jeff?
Incidentally, I have been a PO for many years too. We have our handbook, but by and large are flexible and do all we can to facilitate a smooth operation.
I can't say I've ever given much thought to doing a risk assessment on stress caused by lying.
I can't say I've ever lied.
The most "stress" was asking someone with badges to move along outside.
Is this thread for real?
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