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A Kurdziel  
#1 Posted : 24 April 2015 12:06:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Here’s something to mull over: We have inspectors who go out inspect things and occasionally this involves either going into rivers, streams etc usually in waders or messing around in small boats and canoes. I am reviewing the safety guidance. Our current policy is that work should only be carried out by people who are “competent swimmers”. What is a good working definition of a competent swimmer? Is 50 m of an indoor pool good enough or should we be looking at people who have shown that they can do open water swimming? What do other people do, we can’t be unique in requiring the ability to swim. Thanks for any help
HeO2  
#2 Posted : 24 April 2015 12:32:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Hi, It must all come down to risk assessment and mitigation measures. Please bear in mind that over 60% of drownings are by people deemed competent swimmers, over 60% were within 3m of safety, and nearly 70% died within the first 3 minutes from cold shock effects. Obviously no line workers, a robust rescue plan, and good PPE with training to use too. Cheers Phil
HeO2  
#3 Posted : 24 April 2015 12:35:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Oh for an edit button. LONE workers I meant!
gt  
#4 Posted : 24 April 2015 13:08:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gt

Pretty impressive statistics there He02 Graham
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 24 April 2015 14:05:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Yes HeO2 good numbers. Where did you get them from? I might want to quote them
HeO2  
#6 Posted : 24 April 2015 15:20:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

It's taken from my presentation on the offshore sea survival course. Most of my data comes from Dr's Mike Tipton, and Frank Golden. They are renowned world experts on Hupothermia and drowning: he subject becomes hypothermic when the core temperature is threatened. Effect of Cold water Immersion The authors highlighted that 55% of annual open water immersion deaths occur within 3 metres of a safe refuge, 42% within two metres of safety, two thirds of those who died having been regarded as good swimmers; and in doing so argued that it is the debilitating effects of cold water immersion – which led to drowning or other cause of death such as heart failure, and not hypothermia which killed them. Cheers Phil
fiesta  
#7 Posted : 24 April 2015 15:54:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fiesta

Hi All, From an interested outsider not involved in this issue at all. Given the stats provided it would seem that the ability to swim is a secondary issue after an effective rescue plan designed to get someone out of the water ASAP, especially if a life jacket is being worn. Just a thought.
chris.packham  
#8 Posted : 24 April 2015 15:55:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

For me the minimum would be the wearing of a suitable life jacket. The modern, self-inflating ones can be so comfortable that they are barely noticeable. Swimming is not the answer, not just because of the hypothermia etc. but what happens if the person is rendered unconscious, perhaps due to a blow to the head, has a minor seizure or is otherwise unable to swim? At least they will remain afloat for someone else to rescue them. Chris
Graham Bullough  
#9 Posted : 24 April 2015 17:26:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Chris Packham's comments about the benefits of modern self-inflating life jackets make sense to me, not least because such items presumably minimise dependence on whether the wearers are 'competent' swimmers, mediocre swimmers or non-swimmers. Furthermore, the inspectors mentioned by A Kurdziel will no doubt be wearing outdoor clothing (probably including boots or waders and also wind/waterproof outer garments) and perhaps also haversacks or similar plus cord-slung binoculars and/or cameras - all of which are likely to impair anyone's buoyancy and ability to swim if they fall into water - even if they can swim 50 metres or more in the artificial environment of a swimming pool.
bob youel  
#10 Posted : 26 April 2015 07:42:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

again a public services area that has probably dropped from 2 person to 1 person working and other beneficial areas to the worker have been removed--------- facilitate a suitable etc. risk assessment [ inclusive of the use of Chris P's area] with the workers & management concerned and present the findings/evidence to management team for them to manage noting that management have the duty to manage and they have the final say anyway, thereafter U have done your job and U can do no more and make sure that U have recorded the paper trail
DNTHarvey  
#11 Posted : 26 April 2015 12:51:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DNTHarvey

Below is a link to the Fire and Rescue Service General Risk Assessment Guidance for Flooding and Water Safety Might be helpful https://www.gov.uk/gover...ta/file/9387/2043194.pdf
HeO2  
#12 Posted : 26 April 2015 15:59:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Please be aware that the latest data from the trauma world indicates that if you are injured as well as in cold water you can become hypothermic with just a one degree C drop in core temp. So in numbers, a drop from 37 deg C to 36 with an injury can render you at the mercy of hypothermia. This should be considered in your risk assessment and rescue plan. Cheers Phil
A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 27 April 2015 11:41:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Thanks for these replies: useful stuff. I think I’ll drop the requirement about being a competent swimmer and focus on: •Appropriate buoyancy aids •Suitable clothing •avoiding lone working and use of safety lines •Rescue plan Cheers
kevkel  
#14 Posted : 27 April 2015 12:51:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

When wearing waders it is essential to elevate the legs and feet in the water to prevent them filling and creating an anchor. The life jacket will help with this. Mostly with older types of wader but something to think about for the training of these staff. Kevin
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