Does anybody have a policy on E-Cigareettes as part of No Smoking Policy Thanks

Treat the same as cigarettes. Just remember that whenever this crops on the forum it leads to many, many postings and much angst.
Standby for the flak!

Vaping is not the same as smoking cigarettes.

Vapers (people using e-cigs) should not be exposed to the products of smoking cigarettes, they are two different sets of chemicals therefore areas for the users should be kept separate.

Our policy is to treat them exactly the same as regular cigarettes, ie. use in approved smoking areas only and discipapline accordingly

We treat e-cigs and regular cigs the same. Not allowed in the workplace. External smoking area identified, separate external vaping area identified.

Staff were happy with the policy.

No.

I agree that if a smoker changed to e-cig, they are probably less likely to die a slow horrible death.

The issue is that if they 'vape' alongside someone that is a non-smoker, they may be increasing the chance that the innocent bystander dies a slow horrible death from being subject to passive inhalation of uncontrolled unspecified vapours. Even if the vapours aren't actually harmful, they are annoying and unpleasant.

You are arguing based on a false dichotomy. The choice is not one between allowing vapour to waft around the workplace or allowing smoke to waft around the workplace, it's one between allowing vapour to waft around the workplace or having clean air in the workplace. The latter is preferable.

I wouldnt advocate the use ecigs or encourage their use in the work place, or away from it. How many times have you seen ecigs used around children? They are the tabacco industries soft way into creating a new generation of smokers.

No that's absolutely not the main question.

The choice is NOT 'allow smoking in the workplace or allow ecigs in the workplace', for which the key issue would I agree be whether ecigs are safer than smoking. But that's not the choice, and therefore that's not the question.

The choice actually is 'allow ecigs in the workplace or don't allow ecigs in the workplace', and for that choice, the question absolutely is "are they safe".

That is, you are advancing a false dichotomy.

So, when everyone said that their ecig policy bans the use of them in the workplace and you said "I am somewhat surprised by the hostility to ecigs", you were somewhat surprised but agree that it's a good policy?

Why are most people treating e-cigarettes the same way they treat real cigarettes?
Firstly, it is easier that way. The same reason that if you go onto a construction site everybody wears a hard-hat even though there might not be a specific risk for that individual from overhead hazards.
It saves you the problem of seeing someone away off puffing away at something and having to go to them and ask what they are doing. Then getting into an argument about whether this is acceptable or not. Just banning it is easier. It does not cost the organisation anything and it might irritate a minority of staff and visitors but the majority will, if not in support the policy, will at least acquiesce.

Then there is a duty to protect staff from known risks. At present there is no evidence that there is NO risk from these products. There is some evidence that there is some risk and applying the precautionary principle would lead you to restrict these products use. Again the majority of staff will acquiesce to this policy so there is no real loss to the organisation.

Finally, and this does crop up at times, there is a feeling that people who go off for a smoke are skivers, who use their habit to get out of work and go for a natter with their mates(I am not saying this is right but this is the perception). Having a group of people hanging around smoking and vaping often gives the wrong impression.

There is no current legislation banning or restricting vaping. Equally there is no right to vap, enshrined in law. This leaves the ball entirely within the company’s court, leaving it is purely down to company policy as to where and when vaping is allowed when on company business

This product can also COST lives, by encouraging impressionable youngsters that its cool to Vape, which then, as with most drugs, could lead to other more hazardous things such as full on smoking.

Maybe an idea to use that experience and speak with the HSE for their guidance on smoking e cigarettes at the workplace and then come back and advise us what they say. That will be a win win all round.



Advice by the Trades Union Conference:

"E-ciggies are a problem at work

E-cigarettes are potentially hazardous and have no place in the workplace, the TUC's head of safety has advised. Hugh Robertson, who said he had received two inquiries from safety reps about the product in the last week, said while the electronic nicotine delivery systems are not banned, they should be subject to the same controls at work as real cigarettes. Noting that US authorities have discouraged their use, he said: 'Certainly e-cigarettes do contain a number of carcinogens and toxins, but these are likely to be at much lower levels than with cigarettes made with tobacco.' He added: 'In answer to the specific question about their legality, e-cigarettes are not covered by the ban on smoking in enclosed workplaces and public places, but an employer does have control over whether their employees can smoke them while at work. Given that the long term effects of the fumes are an unknown, then it could be argued that employers should not be allowing a potentially harmful substance to be used in the workplace under COSHH (the Chemicals regulations).' He said safety reps 'should try to ensure that the employer does not allow the use of e-cigarettes in enclosed places or anywhere that smoking tobacco is prohibited, but, as part of a health promotion campaign, might want to work with their employer to encourage smokers to switch to e-cigarettes and use them instead of tobacco cigarettes, but only in places not covered by the smoking ban.' Last year, NHS Fife and Blackburn College made e-cigarettes subject to the same controls under their smoking policies as normal cigarettes."

Regards

“You can ban something just because it's dirty, smelly, annoying, distracting or you don't like the look of it.” Does that include staff?

As you have just clarified, we do not wait for decades to prove that anything including medicines are absolutely safe before placing them on the market. As you have said, even the most rigorous of medicine testing rarely goes over 8 years

Ecigs were not classified as medicines because they are not medicines, in the same way a cup of coffee or a pint of beer is not a medicine, they all are legal recreational drugs. It is probable that licenced nicotine products being regulated as medicines led to their very slow rate of product development and an appalling success rate of about 5%.

“They are at best a nicotine substitute” – yes, precisely, they allow people to obtain their nicotine without 99% of the harmful effects, certainly it is better to give up nicotine completely but for those who can’t or won’t it will still make a massive improvement to their health. You views within public health is regarded as the “quit or die” approach, that’s not an approach I am comfortable when I think about my smoking colleagues, relatives and friends.

Sorry - Broken link on last post - http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_900.pdf