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walker  
#1 Posted : 11 May 2015 08:48:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Well now the country is being run by the Daily Mail, I think the writing is on the wall for HSE. All that good work will soon be undone. I'm glad I only have a few years before retirement.
David Bannister  
#2 Posted : 11 May 2015 09:13:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

For those not in Enforcement, the job has not changed. I don't expect that HASAWA 1974 will be repealed anytime soon, nor will most of the landmark civil law decisions be overturned. Prevent harm from work.
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 11 May 2015 12:25:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

H&S will struggle over the next five years. The current government has promised to create 2 million new private sector jobs over this time period. Its main way of doing this will be to “reduce the burden on business” by getting rid of pesky red tape. So, H&S laws will be very much in the firing line. They will do their damnedest to weaken existing regulations. The most likely approach will be to introduce self-certification schemes (based on the sort of self-regulation that worked so well in the banking sector). Employers will sign up to one of these schemes (run by your favourite outsourcing companies) and become exempt to inspection by the HSE and EHO’s. We can all see how this might end up. Further down the line the government plans to change our relationship with the EU and in particular how EU laws apply to the UK. One leading Tory said in effect that he expected the UK to have free unfettered access to the European single market without having to comply with any of that regulatory nonsense (including the H&S directives which are behind most of the UK’s H&S regs). So even if we stay in the market a lot of the regs look like they will be dumped. Finally this government seems obsessed with making it impossible for ordinary people to have access to the legal system. They now insist that if you want to take a case to the employment tribunal ( eg if you want to take an employer who has sacked you because you refuse to work in dangerous or unhealthy conditions) you have to pay a £1200 fee. This will get worse. So although a lot of health laws will exist and the common law duties might not go, there will be less enforcement and it ill become difficult to ordinary workers to get access to legal redress. Health and Safety will become a free-for-all with the worst bosses doing their best to cut corners and the more honest ones feeling that they too will have to follow that route.
stonecold  
#4 Posted : 12 May 2015 06:08:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Lets not forget its not just about Europe, I work for a very large American company that has a global presence. They have lots of corporate safety rules in place. Funnily enough many are quite similar to the requirements of the HSAW etc. So for me anyways it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if some UK regs got repealed (doubtful anyways for the key ones) as my company's corporate rules still would apply.
allanwood  
#5 Posted : 12 May 2015 08:10:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
allanwood

I beg to differ, i can see Fees For Intervention being used as the HSE weapon of choice in the future and such an intervention could very quickly turn into several thousand pounds, so i can see more HSE inspectors out and about pretty much self financing their very own position - certainly in the construction/property development sector. Also you have the insurance industry whom will be watching over their customers/clients with a very vested interest after all the last thing they want to do is pay out for uneccessary claims which could have been prevented. Interesting times ahead but certainly not the death knell for the HSE (we have had 2 visits from them in the last 2 weeks by the way).
ptaylor14  
#6 Posted : 12 May 2015 09:32:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

A Kurdziel wrote:
H&S will struggle over the next five years. The current government has promised to create 2 million new private sector jobs over this time period. Its main way of doing this will be to “reduce the burden on business” by getting rid of pesky red tape. So, H&S laws will be very much in the firing line. They will do their damnedest to weaken existing regulations. The most likely approach will be to introduce self-certification schemes (based on the sort of self-regulation that worked so well in the banking sector). Employers will sign up to one of these schemes (run by your favourite outsourcing companies) and become exempt to inspection by the HSE and EHO’s. We can all see how this might end up. Further down the line the government plans to change our relationship with the EU and in particular how EU laws apply to the UK. One leading Tory said in effect that he expected the UK to have free unfettered access to the European single market without having to comply with any of that regulatory nonsense (including the H&S directives which are behind most of the UK’s H&S regs). So even if we stay in the market a lot of the regs look like they will be dumped. Finally this government seems obsessed with making it impossible for ordinary people to have access to the legal system. They now insist that if you want to take a case to the employment tribunal ( eg if you want to take an employer who has sacked you because you refuse to work in dangerous or unhealthy conditions) you have to pay a £1200 fee. This will get worse. So although a lot of health laws will exist and the common law duties might not go, there will be less enforcement and it ill become difficult to ordinary workers to get access to legal redress. Health and Safety will become a free-for-all with the worst bosses doing their best to cut corners and the more honest ones feeling that they too will have to follow that route.
I couldn't agree more
walker  
#7 Posted : 12 May 2015 09:40:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

allanwood wrote:
Also you have the insurance industry whom will be watching over their customers/clients with a very vested interest after all the last thing they want to do is pay out for uneccessary claims which could have been prevented. quote] As A Kurdziel states in his last para, the Insurance industry and their government mates have already got this stitched up. Claims will drop because no one can afford to take the offenders to civil court.
jwk  
#8 Posted : 12 May 2015 09:43:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Sadly I have to agree with Andy; the new government is determined to remove 'obstacles' to business, and to prevent any challenge to their own authority. Not a good lookout for H&S in general. I think it will be a different scenario for those of us who work in the regulated health and social care fields though. Since April our regulator has been CQC anyway, and though they will be subject to the same austerity regime as anybody else, I can't see them being subject to the same constraints as HSE. I think in my field we will continue to be tightly regulated, though the emphasis will probably shift even more to the users of services rather than the workers, John
jonc  
#9 Posted : 12 May 2015 18:35:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jonc

Obviously the result from last week's election was fantastic. No normal person would argue with that. And, thankfully, it will I am sure lead to removal of some more of the absurd red tape - both home-grown and EU inflicted. However, I think you have to be amazingly self-centred to expect a big change in the H&S area. Did this topic even get mentioned during the election? Sure, there will - I hope - be some work to remove the more laughable parts of the H&S burden, but I don't see any more general intention to scrap H&S. I think those of you panicking about loosing your unnecessary jobs can probably relax for a bit.
chris.packham  
#10 Posted : 12 May 2015 18:51:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Of course, unless and until we decide to leave the EU their Directives and Regulations will still apply to the U.K. Should we then decide to leave, for our own economic survival we will have to negotiate to remain within the European Economic Area (EEA). This will mean negotiating terms with Brussels, who will hold all the trump cards! We may even find that their approach is even more intrusive since we would no longer have a seat at the table. Look at Switzerland, which has had to sign the Schengen agreement to maintain its position within the EEA and Norway which has had to implement around 90% of all EU regulations and actually pays Brussels more per head of population than we do! One thing is certain. We have some interesting times ahead.
johnmurray  
#11 Posted : 13 May 2015 00:32:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

chris.packham wrote:
Of course, unless and until we decide to leave the EU their Directives and Regulations will still apply to the U.K. Should we then decide to leave, for our own economic survival we will have to negotiate to remain within the European Economic Area (EEA). This will mean negotiating terms with Brussels, who will hold all the trump cards! We may even find that their approach is even more intrusive since we would no longer have a seat at the table. Look at Switzerland, which has had to sign the Schengen agreement to maintain its position within the EEA and Norway which has had to implement around 90% of all EU regulations and actually pays Brussels more per head of population than we do! One thing is certain. We have some interesting times ahead.
We would still have a seat at the table. The seat would be labelled UK. At the moment it is labelled ¨just another EU member state¨. We join EFTA. In which case their already-negotiated terms would apply. Those include many of the terms and conditions which apply to us now, as an EU member state. They also include the free movement rules we have now...and many of the EU directives are not from the EU, they are via the EU from other international organisations. As for H&S not applying....you need to get into the small companies mate, they have never applied in them.....self-employed exempt? That is just rationalising something which has always existed. Am I worried about tribunal costs? No, I´m in a union.....until they do away with them, by which time I will be sunning myself in another EU state where the beer is expensive, but everything else isn´t (£150 a week for a seaside flat in the UK....get outa here....37 quid in Spain...) (cheaper in Greece)(!) Economic survival...propped-up by a truly massive private debt of some £30 trillion , people worry about gov debt of £1.4 trillion? A financial sector of crooks busy buying a quids worth of foreign debt for 50 quid and then finding that they cannot sell it to others, because other fools don´t exist? Joke shop. Stop worrying about H&S, the next economic crash will make the previous one look tame....all the jobs created recently are services sector jobs...low money, low job benefits, low security and low esteem.
walker  
#12 Posted : 13 May 2015 08:34:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

This is all getting a bit political, as the OP I'd not intended that. I don't doubt the H&S laws will remain intact, just observing they are not being enforced and it will get worse (IMHO). Lack of enforcement will allow the safety criminals to thrive at the expense of the good employers. For the record; I voted for a tory, not because of her party but because she seems to be a good MP and I thought her opponent was just trying to jump on a gravy train.
RayRapp  
#13 Posted : 13 May 2015 08:40:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

walker wrote:
This is all getting a bit political, as the OP I'd not intended that.
Ha, you threw in the grenade!
walker  
#14 Posted : 13 May 2015 09:25:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

RayRapp wrote:
walker wrote:
This is all getting a bit political, as the OP I'd not intended that.
Ha, you threw in the grenade!
Harsh ........ but true (blushes!)
zodiacmindwarp  
#15 Posted : 13 May 2015 16:30:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
zodiacmindwarp

The FFI is a deficit tax and this won't be going away for a long time!
JohnW  
#16 Posted : 13 May 2015 16:43:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

JohnMurray wrote:
....all the jobs created recently are services sector jobs...low money, low job benefits, low security and low esteem.
JohnM, that statement '.... all the jobs...' is rubbish and you know it. But if you don't know, I work in the construction sector with some clients, there is so much more construction ongoing now since 2010, thousands of jobs have been created or re-created giving jobs to many builders and engineers, and to staff working for hundreds of contractor companies and manufacturers of building materials. Good money, good job benefits, good security, high esteem for those doing worthwhile work. Please acknowledge this fact otherwise your message will remain looking rubbish and ill-informed.
DP  
#17 Posted : 13 May 2015 17:21:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

best post for ages well done. Im usually a red with a rant.. with regards safety Industry jobs I have to agree with JohnW - there has been a decent upturn... Im sure many of you will have been buzzed on Linked in!!!! I too agreed with his construction jobs comments too - our property team are finding it difficult to get good Project Managers...
johnmurray  
#18 Posted : 13 May 2015 22:46:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

walker  
#19 Posted : 14 May 2015 07:51:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

JohnMurray wrote:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/construction/output-in-the-construction-industry/january-2015/index.html
Thats the best reply I've seen on this site for a long while - nice one JM! Many on here (like our politicians) overlook exactly what is meant by the UK. They look at their little patch and assume everywhere is the same. Sure there are pockets of activity, mostly around London and spreading outwards, I can even see those benefits were I live, 100 miles north of London.
Ian Bell  
#20 Posted : 14 May 2015 08:29:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

Job security and prospects are very poor in the oil & gas sector. No economic recovery here. Admittedly and international problem, not just UK. Geo-political while the US/Saudi beat up the Russian economy and Syria issue.
johnmurray  
#21 Posted : 14 May 2015 09:54:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Things to remember. Part 1: Near zero interest rate Government throwing money at the construction (domestic) sector, in a variety of guises. Constructors accepting old houses/dogs/cats/grannies as part exchange. Investing in property: ie. building with no guarantee of occupation (except in domestic in London, where you could sell a kennel for loadsamoney if it has a bog and sink) The Deficit (getting lower, but not the debt) of which the government has little control over (except by printing money...which fuels inflation...for which we have artificially low interest...and nothing controls the banks/lenders increasing the money supply, which accounts for most of it) So we have a government debt of some 93% GDP, a controllable 1.4 trillion pounds. And a private sector debt of between £14 trillion and £40 trillion..... The construction sector is running on debt. Interest rates, when not held low by government, should currently be at around 6%.......it cannot be held low forever...the pension industry is running on fumes for a start, kept afloat by the £38 billion of rate relief. Dream on..
JohnW  
#22 Posted : 14 May 2015 13:01:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Thanks JohnM for responses, which I maybe would understand better without all the sarcasm which detracts from your points too much. Anyway all I wanted was you to acknowledge that your statement about 'all new jobs' was incorrect; I'm seeing hundreds of good new jobs at my own clients.
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