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Permissible turning forces
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buzzinphil  
#1 Posted : 10 June 2015 10:41:09(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
buzzinphil
We have recently purchased a drum tipping machine for use to convey and rotate drums of batched pharmaceutical products. The drums can weigh up to 115 kgs each and the device is designed to grip the drum and then rotate through 180 degrees to tip the product into the machinery on the floor below. The machine has been going through factory approval and I have been asked to comment on the turning force required to operate the rotation, which I feel is too great. I have been trying to find some guidance on the maximum permissible force we would expect an individual to exert so we can go back to the manufacturer and give them a figure to work to. Without this the feeling is that the force could be construed as being subject to the individuals perception.

Any information or case study examples would be very gratefully received.
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Ian Bell  
#2 Posted : 10 June 2015 11:03:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell
A photo would really help here!!

If I recall correctly there is some guidance on this in the Manual Handling Regs and guidance.

There will no doubt be a British Standard some where, that also contains some guidance that could be relevant.

As regards this machine, how is the drum turned over - by directly pushing on the drum?

Is some form of lever/hand wheel or gear system required to give some mechanical advantage?

WHere is the pivot point relative to where the drum is pushed to tip it over? Work = Force x distance etc
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Ian Bell  
#3 Posted : 10 June 2015 11:13:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell
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buzzinphil  
#4 Posted : 11 June 2015 09:42:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
buzzinphil
Ian Bell wrote:
A photo would really help here!!

If I recall correctly there is some guidance on this in the Manual Handling Regs and guidance.

There will no doubt be a British Standard some where, that also contains some guidance that could be relevant.

As regards this machine, how is the drum turned over - by directly pushing on the drum?

Is some form of lever/hand wheel or gear system required to give some mechanical advantage?

WHere is the pivot point relative to where the drum is pushed to tip it over? Work = Force x distance etc


Ian, Photo's as requested will try and send via PM.

The unit shown from the rear and front. The shot from the front shows a small hand wheel on the left hand side, this is used to rotate the drum between the two main holding arms. The unit is raised and lowered via a standard pallet truck style unit to the rear.
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hilary  
#5 Posted : 11 June 2015 12:22:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary
We had manoeuvring equipment and I felt, like you, that the force required was too great so we put a motor on it instead.

Simples ;)
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Ian Bell  
#6 Posted : 11 June 2015 12:35:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell
All suitably assessed (EHSRs) and CE marked, I assume....
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buzzinphil  
#7 Posted : 11 June 2015 15:08:34(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
buzzinphil
Yes Ian, CE marked, constructed in Germany. The unit passed FAT (Factory Approval Testing) at source but was then shipped over to us in the UK. We feel that the gearing is damaged or incorrect and I am trying to find a figure of force to test to so I can appraise the manufacturer of it's unsuitability.
Part of the issue is, I can't just send it back, it's required for SAT (Site Acceptance Trials) next week! This forms just part of a new scheme to install a £300,000 machine!
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Ian Bell  
#8 Posted : 11 June 2015 15:12:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell
My last comment was aimed at Hilary and here modified machine.
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chris42  
#9 Posted : 11 June 2015 15:57:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42
Ok in my mind you have something like a cement mixer with the hand wheel for tipping on the side ( except a drum instead of the mixing bowl. To this device rotates the drum at its mid point ( C of G at least at the start of the pour.

Google came up with ( Scroll down before you get to figures):- http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=35455

Not exactly definitive but may help. You should be able to measure the machine you have with a spring balance.

Chris
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chris42  
#10 Posted : 11 June 2015 16:10:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42
Also found :-

http://www.roymech.co.uk...uman/Human_controls.html

One concern is that you need to rotate 180 degrees which would mean right hand ending up where the left one was and vice versa.

Chris
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hilary  
#11 Posted : 12 June 2015 08:09:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary
Yes, all suitably assessed and CE marked.
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Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 12 June 2015 16:00:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter
From your own description and Chris42's observations: Shouldn't the thing have a decent diameter handwheel or length of tipping lever?

A Google of "barrel tipper" or "drum rotator" provides the images. Those with a small wheel are often intended for use with a pull chain.
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buzzinphil  
#13 Posted : 15 June 2015 15:17:04(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
buzzinphil
https://drive.google.com...cEdsaUE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com...bnJtRkU/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com...aXZmSzQ/view?usp=sharing

Many thanks to all for your responses. It may be a mute point now as the manufacturer has agreed to supply a replacement gearbox and a fitter to ensure correct installation. Above though you will find links to photo's of the device, should they be of any interest.
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chris42  
#14 Posted : 15 June 2015 16:01:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42
That looks a bit expensive to mix cement in :0)

I would have hoped that it had been geared so that it takes minimal force to rotate that drum.

Did you find any form of official standard afterwards ?

Chris
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buzzinphil  
#15 Posted : 16 June 2015 13:18:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
buzzinphil
Chris42 wrote:
That looks a bit expensive to mix cement in :0)

I would have hoped that it had been geared so that it takes minimal force to rotate that drum.

Did you find any form of official standard afterwards ?

Chris


About £10k expensive! Still struggling to find the exact standard though the info from Roymech would appear to set a standard for design of cranked hand wheels for controls, which fits the bill.

We'll wait and see how the upgrade with the replacement gearbox goes!
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