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Asb9847  
#1 Posted : 13 July 2015 10:06:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Asb9847

Can anyone adivse if a refurbishment or demoltion survey for asbestos would be classed as construction works as per CDM2015. In part 1 of the interpretations it does exempt site surveys although i am unclear as to what these may refer to. Scenario as follows: Asbestos surveyor conducting refurb survey in property with mulitiple other contractors providing assistance to survey e.g. electricians for isolations, lift engineer providing access to lift shaft pit etc. Any thoughts welcome
Stedman  
#2 Posted : 13 July 2015 13:46:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

Asb9847 wrote:
Can anyone adivse if a refurbishment or demoltion survey for asbestos would be classed as construction works as per CDM2015. In part 1 of the interpretations it does exempt site surveys although i am unclear as to what these may refer to. Scenario as follows: Asbestos surveyor conducting refurb survey in property with mulitiple other contractors providing assistance to survey e.g. electricians for isolations, lift engineer providing access to lift shaft pit etc. Any thoughts welcome
No. See Regulation 2, 1, b (b) the preparation for an intended structure, including site clearance, exploration, investigation (but not site survey) and excavation (but not pre-construction archaeological investigations), and the clearance or preparation of the site or structure for use or occupation at its conclusion; This can be found on page 11 of the HSE document L153.
James Robinson  
#3 Posted : 13 July 2015 16:08:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
James Robinson

I'd be interested in the thoughts and views of others on this "site survey" term too. My view - I am willing to change - is that the moment you break in to the ground or the structure, then CDM will apply. To help clarify - a team doing ground survey, tripods etc. would not, but a team digging trial pits and boreholes etc. would - a team measuring windows or room dimensions etc. would not, a contractor fitting windows etc. would - this is my view as stated so willing to alter. So in my mind the term "survey" refers to non-invasive work - measuring, pictures, etc But an asbestos refurbishment or demolition survey worth its money is going to involve people interacting with the site or land - getting in to ceilings, lift shafts, cavity walls, trial pits - so my view (must stress again this is only my view) they would need to apply CDM 2015. That is why the words survey, exploration, investigation, demolition, etc are used in 2,1,b(b) as they have a different meaning in terms of activity.
James Robinson  
#4 Posted : 13 July 2015 16:13:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
James Robinson

Just to help add to the confusion. When someone does an asbestos "survey", are they not "investigating" for the presence of asbestos.............I know I am being very fussy here but does one need to be covered and the other not by CDM just because of the grammar used. Or is more to do with the principle of interacting with the site?
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 13 July 2015 16:34:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Yes, a refurb. and demolition would meet the "investigation and preparatory" part of the definition of construction work - it is an intrusive activity after all, and usually an obvious precursor to the Project 'proper'. By the same token, a management survey would not be construction work.
James Robinson  
#6 Posted : 13 July 2015 16:55:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
James Robinson

Fine with that Ron - agree - that's the way my brain is working on this subject. Intrusive - Yes Destructive - Yes Management Survey - No
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 14 July 2015 07:56:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I would also go along with Ron's assertion - it makes good sense. I just hope I never have to explain this one to a manager, not sure if they would laugh or cry!
Alfasev  
#8 Posted : 14 July 2015 12:05:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

I think it is a matter of proportionality and how intrusive and destructive the works are to facilitate the survey. The regulations are not clear and there is no ACOP but I do not believe it was the intention of the HSE to stipulate all refurbishment and demolition asbestos surveys come under CDM. I can see instances where the intrusive and destructive element of the survey is significant that CDM would apply but in my experience CDM is not being applied to refurbishment and demolition asbestos surveys.
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