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Kate  
#1 Posted : 13 July 2015 19:47:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I'm almost sure I remember HSE having some detailed guidance about the circumstances in which agency or temporary workers have to be treated like employees in terms of their health and safety, and stating that this did not necessarily correspond to their tax status.

When I look at their pages on agency and temporary workers now, I just see vaguery. There is a comment about 'if you are genuinely self-employed' but no description of what counts as this.

Has the guidance changed? Has the actual legal status of such workers changed?

It has come to the point for me where contract staff are reluctant to take part in health surveillance or training on the grounds that this could jeopardise their tax standing. Their agency, of course, provides them with nothing.
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 14 July 2015 07:46:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Kate

The employment status of an individual is somewhat nebulous and depends on three factors, HR, employment and health and safety law. The HSE have provided some guidance but it is far from clear cut. I believe I am correct in saying that as a rule an agency providing contingent labour would be deemed an 'employer' for health and safety purposes. They should provide PPE as a minimum, of course some still don't but are more than happy to receive payment.

The general principle for self-employed status is the master/servant relationship. In short, where an individual is told when to work, how to work and are supervised they are deemed to be the servant and therefore an 'employee'.

See - http://www.hse.gov.uk/en...igation/status-intro.htm
bob youel  
#3 Posted : 14 July 2015 08:30:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

RR is correct and national insurance and tax law play a VERY BIG part so treat people that U manage as employees re H&S areas advise HR etc. to have a handle on the other areas [but alas in my experience most HR people know about employment law only]

additionally the 'controller' factor comes in here [similar to master - servant] so the more U control somebody [irrespective of what their claimed status is] the more U are responsible and have liabilities etc.

for donkies years most industries have played the game e.g. actors, doctors, construction etc. & people have claimed the benefits of the self employed with regards to tax etc. However the gov has clamped down on construction [However its notable that the gov has not bothered with what is deemed to be the upper class areas?]
Kate  
#4 Posted : 14 July 2015 10:21:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Thanks. Is it the case that a person is just an employee or not an employee - or is it possible that someone may not be an employee for tax purposes but does have to be treated like an employee for H&S purposes?
Jimothy999  
#5 Posted : 14 July 2015 10:26:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jimothy999

Kate wrote:
Thanks. Is it the case that a person is just an employee or not an employee - or is it possible that someone may not be an employee for tax purposes but does have to be treated like an employee for H&S purposes?


The latter I would think. Section 3 of HASAWA and common law duty of care would apply regardless of the employment status of the person. If it can be demonstrated that you have control of a process or activity then those duties will apply to anyone affected by it.
hilary  
#6 Posted : 14 July 2015 10:55:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

We treat all our contractors as employees for EH&S except they can be dismissed instantly for breach of rules whereas employees get more than one chance. However, long term contractors undergo training, health surveillance, etc with employees but they do provide their own shoes. PPE specific to their task is purchased by us.
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 14 July 2015 11:12:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Kate wrote:
Has the actual legal status of such workers changed?


Yes, and in a much broader sense. Much info. at gov.uk. Pragmatically, as others state, the master/servant argument applies. Concern regarding tax status may be a smokescreen by some.
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 14 July 2015 21:11:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Kate wrote:
Thanks. Is it the case that a person is just an employee or not an employee - or is it possible that someone may not be an employee for tax purposes but does have to be treated like an employee for H&S purposes?


It is possible that an individual could be treated differently for tax and health and safety status. Like many things there is no clear cut answer as it all depends on the circumstances. The principle advocated by the HSE is to treat all non-employees as employees for health and safety purposes.

As a previous poster alluded to, in law there is very little difference if an employer should injure or kill someone because they could be prosecuted pursuant to s2 or s3 HSWA - one is an employee and the other a non-employee. In the case of Corporate Manslaughter it also makes no distinction between employee or non-employee.

Mr Insurance  
#9 Posted : 15 July 2015 08:45:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr Insurance

With regard to Employers' Liability insurance, the HSE guidance is shown below. As has been mentioned above, the main factor is the level of control - not what the role is called or how the individuals are taxed / paid.

"Whether or not you need employers’ liability insurance for someone who works for you depends on the terms of your contract with them. This contract can be spoken, written or implied. It does not matter whether you usually call someone an employee or self-employed or what their tax status is. Whether you choose to call your contract a contract of employment or a contract for services is largely irrelevant. What matters is the real nature of your relationship with the people who work for you and the nature and degree of control that you have over the work they do."
Kate  
#10 Posted : 15 July 2015 10:25:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Thanks - is there any published wording similar to mlongfellow's quote that will support the point in terms of things such as health surveillance and training?

The worry (which I'm sure is a genuine worry) is that if these things are provided, Her Majesty's Revenue will be more likely to want to class them as employees for tax purposes. I'm looking for something to dispel this fear and haven't found quite what I'm looking for on the HSE website.
jay  
#11 Posted : 15 July 2015 13:58:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

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