Rank: New forum user
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Hello,
I understand that we should provide PPE for labour only sub contractors because to all intents and purposes they are like permanent employees in terms of the way we manage their work tasks, provide work equipment, and so on...
However, in our case they only work for us for a 6 week period annually.
When PPE is specialised for a certain task, e.g. harnesses and lanyards for MEWP operation, I would simply issue it to selected labour only sub contractors at the start of their contract and take it back at the end for inspection and storage. We have maybe 20 sets to issue.
However when it comes to more general (and some would say more personal) items of PPE like safety shoes, our risk assessment says everyone involved should wear them, but, to me, it doesn't seem reasonable to buy over 100 pairs only to take them back and store them away for 46 weeks. Nor does it seem reasonable to hand them over permanently when we only require 6 weeks service.
My 'logical' solution would be to stipulate in their contracts that they must provide their own safety shoes and the company will provide a monetary contribution toward their purchase. My questions are: (a) would this approach be deemed acceptable under H&S law? And (b) since their contract is only for 6 weeks, is it acceptable to pay them 6/52 of the cost of a standard pair of safety shoes - given that we don't have the benefit of the personnel or their shoes for the other 46 weeks!
Expert opinions on this would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: New forum user
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It's just a private company that employs me in the H&S management role. I've never been able to get a properly reasoned answer to the query I posted. Do you know where we stand on that point?
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Rank: Super forum user
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what do U mean by the term "......company will provide a monetary contribution toward their purchase......" as on first reading it means to me that the company would provide a fiver or so!
did this type of short term work etc. for years with labour only & we always built the costs into the work being undertaken as everybody does and its easy to do so the staff [we never discriminated] got what was right and proper letting the accountants do their usual 'legal tricks' with the books
if in doubt treat the people as full time employees and the accountants can right off the costs as they right off stuff every day
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks Dave - start of the cascade back to the good old days of tugging mi forelock t'Mill Master.
Provide the PPE as stipulated by the companies RA - in the case of non-personal items such as Lanyards etc. these could even been hired to save the whole test / inspection / storage scenario if your window of operation is only six weeks out of the year.
If you go down the route of employees provide their own "personal" PPE you can not specify what they wear - a £20 "EN" steel toe cap from Primarni may not suit your RA nor may it be immediately evident what they are wearing (we have several contractors with safety footwear that resembles high end branded trainers!) but at the end of the day it is the company that would be held liable for the management of its health & safety arrangements.
Your thoughts on 6/52 are flawed - regardless of how much "benefit" the employer derives you are indicating you expect the employee to fund 46/52 of the cost of PPE issue a big NO, NO under the regulations.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks Dave - start of the cascade back to the good old days of tugging mi forelock t'Mill Master.
Provide the PPE as stipulated by the companies RA - in the case of non-personal items such as Lanyards etc. these could even been hired to save the whole test / inspection / storage scenario if your window of operation is only six weeks out of the year.
If you go down the route of employees provide their own "personal" PPE you can not specify what they wear - a £20 "EN" steel toe cap from Primarni may not suit your RA nor may it be immediately evident what they are wearing (we have several contractors with safety footwear that resembles high end branded trainers!) but at the end of the day it is the company that would be held liable for the management of its health & safety arrangements.
Your thoughts on 6/52 are flawed - regardless of how much "benefit" the employer derives you are indicating you expect the employee to fund 46/52 of the cost of PPE issue a big NO, NO under the regulations.
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Rank: New forum user
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In my opinion I would say that the labour only subcontractor should pay for their own PPE.
There is a fine line between 'employees & subcontractors'
The subcontractor will be able to claim for all their expenses within their tax returns.
PPE should be issued to all employees as stipulated within the PPE regulations.
It may be beneficial to communicate your PPE recommendations that you have within your risk assessment to the subcontractors before works start to ensure that they are aware of the site requirements.
I hope this helps
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Rank: Super forum user
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can U confirm just what you mean by the term "labour only sub contractors" as if they are proper sub contractors that are self employed & not day rate PAYE people supplied via an agent who U then control as if you are the employer then things will be as Laura says
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Rank: Super forum user
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My post #2 was not asking for a name, but attempting to establish whether there is another employer than you e.g. an agency supplying the workers.
If these people are temporary employees (i.e. not subbies) then you are obligated to supply appropriate PPE as specified in the risk assessments, at no cost to the employees. You can take possession of the PPE at the end of their employment.
Reasonableness does not enter in to this arrangement.
The cost of adequately protecting your workforce from foreseeable risks is part of the cost of doing business.
If there is another employer, the contract negotiations should include provision of safety equipment.
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Rank: Super forum user
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like what ^^^^he ^^^^^ said ... and if that doesn't apply then S3 will.
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