Rank: Super forum user 
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In a residential establishment for the elderly and dementia sufferers how high would you place repairs for fire safety?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Depends on what needs repairing but given that the occupants are high risk and people are sleeping there I would probably consider it pretty darned high!
There will doubtless be people with a differing opinion but I'm working on the principle of whether or not I'd be willing to put my name to it.
C'mon, spill the beans. what needs repairing (or is it not being maintained)?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Off course it high on the list generally. Unless the building is about to fall down.
I guess you need to prove something to someone who is being awkward.
Regards
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user 
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About as high priority as fire safety repairs can ever be outside a COMAH (or whatever the current terminology is) site. Very vulnerable confused people sleeping in; recipe for disaster, specific disaster in this context was Rosepark....
Of course it does depend on what repairs are needed; if it's a fire extinguisher bracket that's come off the wall then that's not so serious, but any damage to fire separation, detection and warning arrangements, evacuation routes and so on has to be very high priority.
If whoever you're talking to doesn't listen get the local fire brigade in, you can lodge an anonymous information. Lives could be stake here....
John
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Rank: Super forum user 
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jwk wrote:
Of course it does depend on what repairs are needed; if it's a fire extinguisher bracket that's come off the wall then that's not so serious, but any damage to fire separation, detection and warning arrangements, evacuation routes and so on has to be very high priority.
100% agree. Just because its seemingly a high life risk premises, it does not mean all repairs need to be sorted immediately. So come on Invictus - be a bit more specific and you will get more informed advice/opinions
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Rank: New forum user
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Considering the residents demeanour (and not to discriminate them) having any fire issues would concern me, due to the nature of the beast and that fires cost lives.
If there is fire system installed and it is this that is at fault then it needs to be fixed otherwise how else will the residents get an early warning sign.
If there are areas where fire can spread between compartments due to lack of maintenance or damage then these should also be fixed but this will depend on the area where they are and the risks that surround it.
If there are a lack of extinguishers surrounding major hazards or exit routes then these should also be fixed.
If there are lacking fire drills and evacuations in the log book then these should also be fixed, otherwise how else do you know if the procedure works?
This is all in my opinion of course, and as Safety Smurf puts it 'but I'm working on the principle of whether or not I'd be willing to put my name to it.'
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Rank: Forum user
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Invictus wrote:In a residential establishment for the elderly and dementia sufferers how high would you place repairs for fire safety? All depends, obviously the overall fire risk for sleeping accommodation is medium/high, however individual risks can be low, medium or high. We should not automatically shout 'High' due the environment mentioned as in my experience these buildings have the highest level of fire detection system, excellent fire compartmentation and training (manned building) and good robust fire procedures in place. Where there is a fire safety issue, this could be temporary covered by introducing a precaution measure until issue is resolved, to be fair if extinguishers not on brackets were getting into my report, I be a very happy man indeed. Now take me to a Victorian conversion building into flats with hollow walls, high risk retail unit on ground floor, front entrance doors in bad condition, timber s/c no AFD etc, I be shouting 'Higher' quicker than an audience watching play you cards right.....
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Rank: Forum user
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personally i would have any fire safety repairs in a building for older persons and those with 'disabilities' as pretty high on the list, especially due to persons being in that building, this may also include a sleeping risk, which would clearly be an issue.
There are going to be more prioroty jobs, i.e ensuring fire alarm systems are working, having staff trained to deal with evacs, use equipment!
The RRO may be worth a look at for legislation purposes to keep the RP out of priosn if something goes wrong!
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Rank: Super forum user
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The auto closers on doors including compartmentation doors were broken so instead of leaving them closed which would prevent the fire/smoke spread they wedged them all open. Apprently when I asked for repairs I was told they were £300 each and other things take priority.
The building is 3 storey residential building, horizontal evacuation and I thought that the doors played a significant part in the procedures.
I have since resolved the problem apparently a screw for the closers backs off and this stops them holding the doors open. 1 tube of arildite solved the problem and now they work. I have also educated the staff about the role of the fire doors. Some told me they thought the brush strip around the doors were draught excluders and didn't realise they had anything to do with smoke or fire.
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Rank: Forum user
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Fire safety takes priority, even over Health and Safety regs. I am certain that there was a hospital that received a prohibition notice for not having fire doors in good working condition... I will try find it.
Glad you fixed it, and I know all too well about "the powers that be" not wanting to carry out mandatory repairs....
Good luck!
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Rank: Forum user
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compartmentation plays an extremely vital role in fire safety, fire doors must be fit for purpose, especially leading onto protected stairwells/corridors which i imagine you will have/need to ensure persons are able to evacuate safely, especially down a 3 storey building. Lifts (unless fire lifts are installed) must not be used during a fire so how you get older and disabled persons out is extremely high on the priorities list!
Sounds like you have got a good battle ahead, i like to quote the RRO to my RP and they always back down and follow my advice.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Not here they will go and ask the facilities manager who will tell them they are ok,so they act on his advice. He's not qualified, but he has 'been here for years'
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Rank: Forum user
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quote=Invictus]Not here they will go and ask the facilities manager who will tell them they are ok,so they act on his advice. He's not qualified, but he has 'been here for years' I have heard that quote far too often, it sounds good of course and a lot of people are that naive to believe it!
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Rank: Super forum user
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I did point out that they get it in writing as it will be him standing in the dock with them defending themselves and not me.
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