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B Ash  
#1 Posted : 21 August 2015 10:21:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B Ash

Hello, I was looking for some guidance on companies and the administering of Adrenalin. Where a company is aware of an employee (s) medical condition, are companies permitted to stock and administer adrenalin. I know the law on people being able to administer has altered in relation to this, however does the change relate to assisting a person to administer there own they are carrying rather than stocking and administering? I'm aware that employees will not be medically trained practitioners necessarily. Thanks in advance
teh_boy  
#2 Posted : 21 August 2015 10:30:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

http://www.hse.gov.uk/firstaid/faqs.htm - Under Employers - Tablets and Medications As far as I know the law on stocking spare pens only applies to schools- and first aiders must be trained to administer. Some links to actual law here.
teh_boy  
#3 Posted : 21 August 2015 10:31:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

http://www.reactfirst.co.uk/live/tips36.asp Argh for an edit box - I have 60 seconds to kill now before I can post this link :) - Still 22.... ahh 10 now :) - here you go...
johnmurray  
#4 Posted : 21 August 2015 10:46:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Epipens are prescription devices.
stevedm  
#5 Posted : 21 August 2015 13:52:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

B Ash wrote:
Hello, I was looking for some guidance on companies and the administering of Adrenalin. Where a company is aware of an employee (s) medical condition, are companies permitted to stock and administer adrenalin. I know the law on people being able to administer has altered in relation to this, however does the change relate to assisting a person to administer there own they are carrying rather than stocking and administering? I'm aware that employees will not be medically trained practitioners necessarily. Thanks in advance
Short answer is no...the storing and Controlling remain unchanged the administering has so Long as it is patients own.
gotogmca  
#6 Posted : 24 August 2015 15:13:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gotogmca

We have a similar situation. What we have agreed, with the employee's permission, is that they will keep an epipen with them but train our first aiders in the use of the pen. Then should the need arise and the employee not be able to administer it themselves then a first aider could do so. This is only possible because the employee has been honest about their condition and is willing to share this with the first aiders. Hope this helps. PM me if you need more detail.
johnmurray  
#7 Posted : 24 August 2015 16:09:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

thanks 1 user thanked johnmurray for this useful post.
dhally on 21/11/2018(UTC)
stuie  
#8 Posted : 25 August 2015 20:56:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stuie

We have a guy with a severe nut allergy who carries an epipen (pocket of cargo trousers), he also has a spare in his desk draw and in his car. We have trained (1/2 day course) several members of staff (not all first aiders) to administer the pen if he cannot do it himself. Trained staff are aware of the location of the pens etc. HTH Stuart
thanks 1 user thanked stuie for this useful post.
dhally on 21/11/2018(UTC)
Route66  
#9 Posted : 27 August 2015 12:29:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Route66

Lets get some facts cleared up here. Firstly, they are Adrenalin Auto-injectors. Epipen is merely a brand, so talking about administering an epipen is like saying you're going to put the Hoover around, yet it might be a Dyson, Panasonic, Samsung etc, etc. There are currently 3 auto-injector brands on the UK market, Epipen, Jext, and Emerade, as Anapen voluntarily withdrew from the UK market about 3 years ago following concerns about possible mechanism failures causing it not to work. However, I believe they are launching an improved device in the markets they still operate in. So it may yet come back into UK use. NOTE: For those of you who may be outside the UK, there are other brands available internationally, including Anapen, and in some countries only a single one of the brands is licensed, including some EU countries. The legal ability for anyone to administer an auto-injector goes back many years to when they first introduced regulations that only medical professionals could administer medication to other persons. It is currently included in the Human Medicines Regulations 2012 Schedule 19, 'Medicinal products for parenteral administration in an emergency'. I believe the OP and teh boy are confusing adrenalin supplies with the changes for asthma inhalers that came about in the 2014 Amendment which now allows schools to obtain those prescription only medicines. There is a bit of a campaign to do the same for adrenalin, but as far as I'm aware it has not yet been successful and indeed adrenalin is a bit more dangerous than an inhaler. Many other conditions can affect the use of adrenalin and the devices come in different sizes, basically dependant on body mass. Back on track... All the various brands have different operating methods, thus why some training is a very good idea if more than 1 person involved. Plus, it must be given intramuscularly, not into a blood vessel or flab, there are also several other significant training points. I won't go into all the issues as it will make this post far too long. But ultimately, irrespective of what the HSE says about being trained, if faced with an unconscious anaphylatic suffering breathing difficulties, just get their pen, read the instructions on it if need be, and use the darn thing. It's very likely the only think that will stop them dying in front of you while you dither about what to do. There are a lot of similarities with the current situation regarding AEDs; the HSE say "it is important that those who may use it are appropriately trained." yet the Resus Council UK clearly says ... "AEDs have been used by untrained people to save life. Clear, spoken instructions and visual illustrations guide users through the process. Lack of training (or recent refresher training) should not be a barrier to someone using one. If you are prepared to use the AED do not be inhibited from doing so." If you have an employee who carries an autoinjector, there is nothing to stop them showing colleagues how it should be administer if the employee is incapable of doing it themselves due to the sudden severity of the attack. Equally, you may choose to get more formal instruction. There are organisations that go as far as offering a Ofqual L2 award in 'Recognition and immediate treatment of Anaphylaxis' and similar titles. I know of one young lady who was a recent FAW delegate on a course I was instructing, who has obtained sufficient injectors on prescription that there is one in each of the FAK in her work area, so that any of her FAW colleagues can get to a pen if she needs one. She had shown all of them what to do and it is her responsibility to make sure they remain in date. She works in a retail food store and has a very severe nut allergy. Secondary transfer of peanut, perhaps even via a child's sweaty hand print, could set her off! So my guidance would be, depending on the size of the organisation, get some training for the staff. If it's a small team, with just one person affected, get them to show their colleagues what to do, simple as that. if you're a larger concern, get someone to deliver some more formal training. See the Anaphylaxis UK website for more info. http://www.anaphylaxis.o...h-anaphylaxis/medication One final thing, if you're dealing with Americans/Canadians, or people whose English is North American based, they are unlikely to know what Adrenaline is; they call it Epinephrine.
thanks 1 user thanked Route66 for this useful post.
dhally on 21/11/2018(UTC)
toe  
#10 Posted : 27 August 2015 21:33:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Excellent advise above. I remember being told during training that if you administer any autoject devices that you should put the casualties own hand on top of the pen and your hand over there's when administrating - this will give the person (if conscious) the opportunity to hold back or refuse it if they do-not want it to be administered for any reason. Note: It was military first aid training, and included the administration of morphine amongst others. I'm not advocating this method just sharing some views.
johnmurray  
#11 Posted : 28 August 2015 08:53:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"I believe the OP and teh boy are confusing adrenalin supplies with the changes for asthma inhalers that came about in the 2014 Amendment which now allows schools to obtain those prescription only medicines" But only for use with parental consent on children diagnosed with asthma: "The emergency salbutamol inhaler should only be used by children, for whom written parental consent for use of the emergency inhaler has been given, who have either been diagnosed with asthma and prescribed an inhaler, or who have been prescribed an inhaler as reliever medication"
Route66  
#12 Posted : 28 August 2015 09:51:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Route66

"But only for use with parental consent on children diagnosed with asthma:" Well yes of course, but as this topic isn't about Asthma, I didn't go into a full explanation of the 2014 amendment. As a general rule, except in a life threatening emergency, all medication administered in educational establishments should be with parental permission. They would not be allowed to administer it to a child experiencing their 1st Asthma attack, just because they had those symptoms; they would have to call 999/112 and hope for the best response. But lets not make this an Asthma thread.
johnmurray  
#13 Posted : 28 August 2015 12:54:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Route66 wrote:
"But only for use with parental consent on children diagnosed with asthma:" Well yes of course, but as this topic isn't about Asthma, I didn't go into a full explanation of the 2014 amendment. As a general rule, except in a life threatening emergency, all medication administered in educational establishments should be with parental permission. They would not be allowed to administer it to a child experiencing their 1st Asthma attack, just because they had those symptoms; they would have to call 999/112 and hope for the best response. But lets not make this an Asthma thread.
Quite right. Let's keep it as original. As previously stated: No, the company cannot stock an "epipen"(TM).
Route66  
#14 Posted : 28 August 2015 14:32:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Route66

Back to the OP, buried in the midst of my large post, was reference to ... "I know of one young lady who was a recent FAW delegate on a course I was instructing, who has obtained sufficient injectors on prescription that there is one in each of the FAK in her work area, so that any of her FAW colleagues can get to a pen if she needs one. She had shown all of them what to do and it is her responsibility to make sure they remain in date." I'm assuming this original posting wasn't entirely rhetorical and there is an employee in mind. So discuss it with them. But there is no legal way for the company to obtain prescription only adrenalin injectors.
firesafety101  
#15 Posted : 28 August 2015 16:22:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

If these devices are in every First Aid Kit are they not open to abuse ?
Route66  
#16 Posted : 28 August 2015 17:46:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Route66

FireSafety101 wrote:
If these devices are in every First Aid Kit are they not open to abuse ?
As I understood it, their FAKs are restricted to staff access and only First Aiders are allowed to administer FA. Anyone else tampering with a FAK would be liable, presumably, to disciplinary action. It was only a fairly small single floor retail unit that she worked at, so perhaps 2 or 3 FAK I'd imagine.
stuie  
#17 Posted : 28 August 2015 19:19:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stuie

Ours are not in any of the first aid kits on site they are with the guy with the allergy as they are prescribed for him and him alone.
toe  
#18 Posted : 30 August 2015 11:50:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Route66 wrote:
But there is no legal way for the company to obtain prescription only adrenalin injectors.
Absolutely correct. I cannot understand how an organisation could obtain these without prescription!
johnmurray  
#19 Posted : 30 August 2015 18:31:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Since they are only available in the UK on prescription, possession of the devices by a company, without a prescription, would be a criminal offence.
Angela1973  
#20 Posted : 01 September 2015 14:36:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Angela1973

On my recent re-qualification, we were told that autoinjectors are not supposed to be administered unless you are trained to do so (the aforementioned 1/2 day course). However our trainer said that in reality, if your casualty can't breathe and the only thing that's going to help is their autoinjector, then putting your hand over theirs and putting it into their thigh may well save their life. No first aider has been successfully sued for helping a person due to the fact they have to prove intent to harm which of course a first aider is not going to do. I apprecaite it also says that this is if they do not fall outside of their scope of training, but if it means a person lives, then I am guessing most of us would do it. They are bringing out a new pen soon which administers the same amount of adrenalin but in 5 seconds rather than the 10 elephants you currently have to count to. Should improve sufferers immensely by reducing the time to get the job done. We are not allowed to stock them in our business, as we can't inhalers or any medicines at all, but people often tell us where their supplies are because they don't want to get caught out without something which ultimately they need to save themselves with.
Route66  
#21 Posted : 02 September 2015 11:44:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Route66

Angela1973 There is already a 5 second device on the UK market and has been for a year or two. The Emerade has several USPs over it's competitors: 5 Sec to use (in reality all of them inject in a second or two anyway) Longer needle, so more suitable for the more generous flesh covering of some individuals. Only one cover/cap to remove instead of 2, so less confusion for panicking person. There are others around the world, for example the 'Auvi-Q' in the USA (sold as Allerject in Canada), is 5 sec and also has voice instructions once you remove the first cover. Worth watching their video for entertainment value and also for the warnings about using with other medical conditions. https://www.auvi-q.com/
johnmurray  
#22 Posted : 02 September 2015 12:02:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Available in the UK as Allerject (TM). Still only as a prescription item. Although they can easily be obtained online from offshore suppliers without prescription (probably filled with bleach/saline etc)
Route66  
#23 Posted : 02 September 2015 12:19:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Route66

JohnMurray wrote:
Available in the UK as Allerject (TM). Still only as a prescription item. Although they can easily be obtained online from offshore suppliers without prescription (probably filled with bleach/saline etc)
John Don't wish to contradict, but since when? It's not listed on http://www.anaphylaxis.o...xis/medication#injectors Nor is is included in products marketed in UK by the manufacturer, SANOFI http://www.sanofi.co.uk/...8-4B55-9647-764E17202595 If it is available, I'm keen to know for updating training resources.
toe  
#24 Posted : 02 September 2015 23:16:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

I think that the OP has been answered in all of the above posts. I would just like to add something else to the mix. Our organisation is involved in a naloxone programme and our staff have administered this drug on a few occasions, this is a unique programme that is exclusive to Scotland. I do not intend to hijack the post - just to add to the discussions. See below for more information. https://isdscotland.scot...e-Report.pdf?86239260436 http://www.naloxone.org....ster/24-howtoadminister1
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