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wobblemouth  
#1 Posted : 22 September 2015 14:32:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wobblemouth

We're a Principal Contractor on a school project due to start construction shortly. The Client (trust) is insisting that we are appointed as Principal Designer too. They state that after 6th October, once a contract has been signed the PC will appointed as PD. This can't be right, can it?! No problem in us taking on the role, per se, but there were no queries regarding our competence, and we'd have to outsource someone to assist in this. Any advice appreciated.
PH2  
#2 Posted : 22 September 2015 14:50:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PH2

It is not unusual for Clients to transfer PD responsibilites to the PC on a Design and Build project, but not common on traditionally procured Design, then Build schemes.
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 22 September 2015 15:34:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Is the design finished? If not, I suggest you politely decline! HSE have published a bit more guidance in their latest Construction e-bulletin
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 23 September 2015 09:38:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I agree with the above posts. Assuming there is a design input, which given the project there must be, then the main designer should be appointed the Principal Designer. It is unlikely you would have the necessary skills, etc, to take on this role anyway - therefore you could be in breach of the regulations if you did.
wobblemouth  
#5 Posted : 23 September 2015 09:45:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wobblemouth

Its a D&B project,design is certainly not finished. And yes we wouldn't have anyone with sufficient skills in-house to perform this role. I'll need to have a look to see who would be classified as the 'main designer'.
achrn  
#6 Posted : 23 September 2015 10:17:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

RayRapp wrote:
I agree with the above posts. Assuming there is a design input, which given the project there must be, then the main designer should be appointed the Principal Designer. It is unlikely you would have the necessary skills, etc, to take on this role anyway - therefore you could be in breach of the regulations if you did.
The trouble with this argument is that if you are D&B contractor, then no-one else is actually going to be in control of the project. That is, the D&B contractor IS the party that is in control of the project, and is the party that will be managing and coordinating the design process. I think it's quite difficult to argue that a DESIGN and build contractor who is the only direct appointment by the client is not in control of the design of the project. If the client appoints a subbie to the D&B contractor to be the PD, is the D&B contractor going to accept the instructions of its own subbie? How does that work, contractually? This also requires the client to operate two contracts and two intertwined appointments. The law requires someone to be appointed to plan, manage and monitor the pre-construction phase, and so far as the client is concerned they have appointed a single party to plan, manage and actually do everything (both design and build), so why wouldn't that party be the PD?
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 23 September 2015 10:42:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

My comments were aligned to the previous posts, particularly PH2's comments regarding a traditionally procured design, then build process. With a design and build project it would make sense for the PC to accept the PD as role, where normally the main designer is working for or under the control of the PC. I trust this clarifies my previous comments.
SP900308  
#8 Posted : 24 September 2015 12:20:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Where a D+B contractor is the PC, but a Specialist Consultant is engaged by the Client (from initial design onwards) to: generate the specification and ensure the design meets the Client / Consultant's specification, and direct the D+B Contractor in terms of design changes (influencing safety and health elements along the way), then who is the PD (Consultant or D+B Contractor)? Simon
achrn  
#9 Posted : 24 September 2015 13:16:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

SP900308 wrote:
Where a D+B contractor is the PC, but a Specialist Consultant is engaged by the Client (from initial design onwards) to: generate the specification and ensure the design meets the Client / Consultant's specification, and direct the D+B Contractor in terms of design changes (influencing safety and health elements along the way), then who is the PD (Consultant or D+B Contractor)?
Whoever is appointed in writing by the client, or if no-one is appointed in writing by the client, then the client (assuming this is not a domestic client).
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