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On a golf course the ground gets wet and soft during winter. To protect the course the course committee bans electric trolleys as they do a disproportionate amount of damage. So only golfer that carry their bags can play.
It has been raised that this may be 'discriminating against people that can't carry their bags'.
I see it as management but I'd like a second opinion, any advice?
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Rank: Forum user
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andrew millward wrote:On a golf course the ground gets wet and soft during winter. To protect the course the course committee bans electric trolleys as they do a disproportionate amount of damage. So only golfer that carry their bags can play.
It has been raised that this may be 'discriminating against people that can't carry their bags'.
I see it as management but I'd like a second opinion, any advice?
We live in a world where whatever you do somebody is 'discriminated' against...of course IMVHO!
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Rank: Forum user
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andrew millward wrote:On a golf course the ground gets wet and soft during winter. To protect the course the course committee bans electric trolleys as they do a disproportionate amount of damage. So only golfer that carry their bags can play.
It has been raised that this may be 'discriminating against people that can't carry their bags'.
I see it as management but I'd like a second opinion, any advice?
As there is a sound business reason for implementing this policy, I would say No, it's not discriminatory.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Some courses give a special dispensation to the elderly or infirm usually with a Dr's note. In my view if you are fit enough to play golf then you are able to carry a light (pencil) bag but perhaps not the full set. The course must come first in my opinion.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Health & Safety Law does allow you to discriminate if it is for a genuine safety reason (although used by most for a reason not to do something, yes I'm looking at you local councils).
Baning electric trolleys in my opinion in good or bad weather would not be discrimination in anyway. They are a luxury item not an aid to a disability although willing to be proven wrong.
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Rank: Forum user
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Wheeled trolley that is manually pulled along is OK though?
Its a sport after all, so an ability to move your own golf bats might be reasonably perceived to be a prerequisite....
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Rank: Super forum user
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If you google disabled golfers you will find that electric mobility aids are commonly designed and used. Your policy is therefore definitively erring on the side of discrimination. The notion of sound business reason is nonsensical in terms of equality legislation.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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It's not a health and safety reason though is it, it's to prevent damage.
If some people are using electric vehicles as a luxury whereas others may be using them because of disability, is it effective and reasonable to ban them but with exemptions for people who do need them? (Much as shops ban dogs with the exception of assistance dogs.)
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Rank: Forum user
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andrew millward wrote:On a golf course the ground gets wet and soft during winter. To protect the course the course committee bans electric trolleys as they do a disproportionate amount of damage. So only golfer that carry their bags can play.
It has been raised that this may be 'discriminating against people that can't carry their bags'.
I see it as management but I'd like a second opinion, any advice?
Not meaning to be sarcastic but unless "not being able to carry their bags" is now a protected characteristic then you cannot be discriminating against people under the equality act 2010
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Rank: Super forum user
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Matelot
The reasons why some people cannot carry their own bag DOES make them a protected group of persons!!!
As I have stated in other similar threads the aim is not to ensure equality of treatment but rather equality of opportunity. Thus treating able and disabled exactly the same can actually be discriminatory. If equality of treatment leads to significantly greater difficulty for the disabled compared to the able then it is still discrimination.
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Rank: Forum user
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boblewis wrote:Matelot
The reasons why some people cannot carry their own bag DOES make them a protected group of persons!!!
As I have stated in other similar threads the aim is not to ensure equality of treatment but rather equality of opportunity. Thus treating able and disabled exactly the same can actually be discriminatory. If equality of treatment leads to significantly greater difficulty for the disabled compared to the able then it is still discrimination.
Bob,
The OP mentioned nothing about disability. All it mentioned was people not being able to carry their bags.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Surely the reason they cannot carry their bags would define either discrimination or non-discrimination.
If necessary you can exempt those disabled from the electric caddy-cart "ban".
Or fit wider tyres!
Although I note that golf is riddled with discriminatory practices anyway....the Royal Troon for instance, and as an example, will not allow any male with a handicap of more than 20 to play. Unless you are female, in which case it is 30...
I suggest they provide an actual caddy, free, for those discriminated against.
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I also note that Troon has no discernible policy on transgender players as well......
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The club has failed at the first hurdle and is now looking for a reason 'not' to discriminate - which in my view they may well be doing, or at least they are defending against 'reasonable requests for access by the members (not a workplace or even public ground though - or is it a municipal club?).
Perhaps a proper risk assessment and consideration of all of the facts (not just the ground damage) might also have identified that buggies might also get stuck or be more prone to slip/skid and therefore it is for the protection of the occupants as well as the hallowed turf.....
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Rank: Super forum user
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Steve
Now the colours, aka reasons, are now known it is going to be a little difficult to start a risk assessment approach. It is going to be a brave club that admits it is not accessible to those with mobility problems:-)
Why is it people work so hard to justify what is essentially a potential discrimination???
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Rank: Super forum user
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andrew millward wrote:On a golf course the ground gets wet and soft during winter. To protect the course the course committee bans electric trolleys as they do a disproportionate amount of damage. So only golfer that carry their bags can play.
Does the club allow 'non-motorised' trolleys as you state that the players have to 'carry' their bags?
Also, are we talking about motorised trolleys [the weight difference between motorised and non-motorised can't be that great (circa 5-10kg) surely] or mobility vehicles / golf buggies?
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Rank: Super forum user
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As a matter of interest I use a specially designed powered wheelchair to play outdoor bowls. It has extra wide wheels and a lower bearing pressure on the ground than a person standing on their own two feet. So all told I do less damage to the grass than someone walking on it even when damp or wet.
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There is also a real concern regarding our American friends across the pond as they generally discriminate against the many healthy patrons who are forced to use buggies on their well manicured courses whether they like it or not.......mmmm
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Rank: Super forum user
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SP900308 wrote:andrew millward wrote:On a golf course the ground gets wet and soft during winter. To protect the course the course committee bans electric trolleys as they do a disproportionate amount of damage. So only golfer that carry their bags can play.
Does the club allow 'non-motorised' trolleys as you state that the players have to 'carry' their bags?
Also, are we talking about motorised trolleys [the weight difference between motorised and non-motorised can't be that great (circa 5-10kg) surely] or mobility vehicles / golf buggies?
Any ban due to the prevailing ground conditions will normally state either no trolleys and/or golf buggies, which includes motorised and non-motorised. The weight difference between a motortised trolley and non-motorised can be quite considerable depending on the model and type of battery i.e. lead or lithium.
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As I have said above - The right equipment does less damage than a person walking!!! So what is the real agenda???
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Bob - the real agenda should be a risk based approach and a reasonable way forward planned through the business processes.
As I said above -I would be more concerned with safety for wheeled buggies on slippery ground than course damage. But this is a business and running costs have to be considered. Wheels are in constant contact and although one pass is unlikely to damage it is a different story for continual traffic. Soon the ground ends up as irreparable until it has been allowed to dry out completely.
If it is a municipal - the rules are different than commercially owned. Some courses may be able to accommodate 'reasonable adjustment' but equally others may not.
In my view the real agenda is 'OSH business as usual' - take a pragmatic and sensible approach and use lateral thinking to overcome such problems - but be reasonable in both considerations and expectations.
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boblewis wrote:As I have said above - The right equipment does less damage than a person walking!!! So what is the real agenda???
Bob, I have no agenda. I am just simply stating the facts...and as an avid golfer it's my opinion that trolleys and buggies can do more damage than people walking, especially around the greens in wet weather.
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Ray
I was actually questioning the agenda of the club:-) I am afraid the risk assessment approach does not work for me here. If the ground is so slippery then spiked shoes do some real damage!!
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andrew millward wrote: On a golf course the ground gets wet and soft during winter.
Could the club not devise a strategy where they allow users of motorised trolleys / carts to follow specific "subtly" demarcated areas / routes (avoiding the areas that suffer the greatest damage (around the greens)). Reasonable adjustments can and should be made to enable all golfers to enjoy their sport. The magazines are full of such motorised vehicles / equipment, seems ironic that once you've spent £££s on said vehicles / equipment, you cannot use it where you wish.
Could the drainage be improved to reduce the damage problem. Of course this comes back to costs but would probably be a worthwhile investment and benefit to all golfers at the club.
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boblewis wrote:As I have said above - The right equipment does less damage than a person walking!!! So what is the real agenda???
You said that on the assumption that it is vertical ground-bearing pressure that is relevant. Actually, it seems to me that most damage done to soft/wet ground by wheeled vehicles is due to the traction effects - ie the tendency for wheeled vehicles driven by their wheels to wheel-spin.
A motorised trolley, even if it does exert lower ground pressure than a person standing on one foot, will tend to wheel-spin more than a person walking tends to slide. I would expect electric motor driven trolleys to be especially prone to wheel-spin, since they have maximum torque at minimum speed (ie when starting), unless they have extremely clever control circuitry (and I can't say I've ever seen reference to golf trolleys with traction control).
As such, I don't see any reason to assume there's a hidden agenda - is it really beyond the bounds of possibility that the people maintaining the ground have observed that motorised trolleys cause more damage to the ground than people walking do?
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boblewis wrote:Ray
I was actually questioning the agenda of the club:-) I am afraid the risk assessment approach does not work for me here. If the ground is so slippery then spiked shoes do some real damage!!
Bob, no worries, I did not take it personally.
If it was down to headgreenkeepers they would shut the course from October to end of March. Damage will occur by people walking common areas with or without spikes. It's all about doing what is reasonaly practicable...sounds familair.
Getting prepared for a nice break over the winter period. Don't like frost, ice, rain, wet, mud...
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Ray
Not a fan of British summers either then:-)
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