Thanks for the update. I would expect a general answer from HSE on this to be honest. If they gave a discrete opinion based on information that turned out later to be subtly wrong it could prejudice any future action taken, something they would wish to avoid. Not exactly useful to you but I can understand why they do it. Just read through the original discussion thread and I'm scratching my head a bit. The argument seems to come down to whether or not the guy had an accident. Given that he was unintentionally hurt I think it is pedantry of the widest order to claim that it wasn't an accident and I sure wouldn't want to stand up in court and argue the point that way. For those making the argument, consider that the task (lifting the box) was intended but the way he did it (presumably lifting incorrectly and so causing injury) was not, thus ticking our box for unintended event. Finally, I agree that investigation to ensure the facts as stated are correct is always essential before making a decision, but with the scenario as stated I would say it is reportable.

IMO HSE response is exactly what one would expect. The person had to be at work and undertaking their work activity, during the course of which they sustained an injury that meant they were off work for 7 days (not counting the day of the accident, but counting any normal periods of absence - e.g. weekend). They don't need to "prove" that they were injured and they might be pulling a fast one rather than a muscle (sorry for bad pun!), but the simple fact that they were at work when they claim they injured themselves and then were not at work for the subsequent 7 days means it is reportable. Your investigation has to try to establish the validity of what they are claiming and whether they were following the correct lifting / handling procedure, mainly because it could affect any injury claim not because it will affect whether it is reportable or not.

That sums it up though Ray, If there is and accident and its investigated thoroughly, any decision made to report or not will be judged on that investigation pack and the decision made by the duty holder. If any decision for sound reasons is made 'not' to report an accident by the duty holder that is later questioned by a regulator - if the decision making process is backed up by sound rational the regulator should be fine by this.

I agree DP I have always taken the starting point with any accident by asking myself whether the HSE would benefit from knowing or not. Now in many cases it's blindingly obvious that we should make the report, but in the case of lifting a tote and hurting the back, I have to ask if this is case of being hurt at work or hurt by work. Subtle maybe, but I see too may people trying to meet the letter of RIDDOR rather than the spirit of what it's there to collect. It's hugely dependant on the facts of course. Let's say the tote was empty, not snagged and at an ideal level. Just what would anyone do with that report? For a 15kg tote in the same circumstances? hmm still not convinced. 20kg, snagged, poor access to the load - well looks like we had a hand in that somehow. I have to say that this set against the context of a large organisation the can easily show just how many reports it makes and is not in the habit of trying to bend nor break the rules. Any incident that is what you might call questionable or borderline and subsequently NOT reported is annotated on the system as to the rationale behind not reporting it. We have absolutely no problem with reporting everything. We don't use RIDDOR internally as any kind of metric or performance measure but speaking to our Primary Authority, they are clear that they wish people would be a little more circumspect before reporting wasp stings etc. They have to deal with all of these reports and that stacks up to a considerable amount of work that they could well do without. We are also very clear that whether we report it or not, it has no bearing on the employee's position re feeling they have a claim etc. They can argue that in their own way. Conversely it does indicate that any accident that DOES get reported clearly had some foundation in it being more a case of injured BY work. I think that the reason the HSE are a bit woolly at times is that it's a woolly world!