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lneale06  
#1 Posted : 12 November 2015 14:43:08(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
lneale06

Afternoon All, I`m after a bit of help with an issue I just can`t seem to get my head around. The company I`m working for are demolishing and rebuilding parts of a disused railway station that was built early 1900`s. Due to the age of the building etc and the nature of the works I have requested to the principle designer that they need to obtain a lead paint survey as the operatives will be breaking old painted wood and there is a high possibility that it will be lead based. The PD replied that there is no legal requirement to obtain a lead survey so basically forget it. I have searched the CLAW regs and CDM 2015 regs and can`t see anything which states that the survey needs to be obtained. It does state that "If" there is a risk then a survey should be considered but surely there needs to be a survey completed to decide on the risk. Any help would be hugely appreciated guys,
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 12 November 2015 15:07:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

The PD is talking nonsense - a RA is a legal requirement pursuant to the MHSWR reg 3 and should be recorded where there is a significant hazard...see CLAW regulation 7 below. If, there is only a very small amount of paint to removed and outside there may be very little likelihood of exposure to lead. 7 The duty the Regulations place on every employer to prevent or adequately control the exposure of employees to lead applies irrespective of the source of that exposure. For example, the exposure to lead may result from work with lead or lead compounds being carried out by the employer’s own employees, or incidental exposure arising from work nearby being carried out with lead or lead compounds by another employer’s employees. Lead is a common hazard in the undercoat of old paintwork. However, it is very easy to test for lead paint, indeed you can buy a testing kit from many hardware stores. See for further information: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l132.pdf
lneale06  
#3 Posted : 12 November 2015 15:51:03(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
lneale06

Ray, Thank you so much for your reply and help. I went down the MHSWR route with the PD this morning and am yet to await a reply. I also found a bit of information in appendix 4 in the CDM regs which reg 12 refers to so I think I`ve got a strong case now because at the end of the day its the guys doing the work who will be put at risk not the PD sitting in his comfortable office! Cheers, Lee
simonfuller1  
#4 Posted : 13 November 2015 00:25:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
simonfuller1

HI Ray is good with the advice of MHSWR/ Claw this will be the responsibility of the client no doubt not RA's . Unfortunatley the PD will be looking at it from the building risk rather than occupational health. However lead is a specified risks in schedule 3 cdm 15 this is where you need to go in this case no.2 "work which puts workers at risk from chemical or biological substances constituting a particular danger to the safety or health of workers or involving a legal requirement for health monitoring. CLAW prescribes health monitoring therefore schedule 3 applies. with regard to the duties of the PD - refer them to paragraph 102 of the guidance on the regs .. pd has a duty to ensure that foreseeable risks are identified, not dismissed .the risks are then divided into sub headings which include - "a) while carrying out construction work." Once lead has been identified then the PD's hands are tied as they then need to advocate the hierarchy of control to the design team. ( para 103) I would suggest you advise of the LIPSA.org site - this is the Lead in paint society good information about suitable surveys, be mindful of the accuracy of the 3m lead dippers and try and avoid the contractor/ PC ending up doing the survey if its a fixed sum contract then they will look to the quickest means of testing and not necessarily the most suitable. Don't forget that the PC / Contractor will need to be geared up with systems for monitoring exposure workplace and personnel ( blood tests) . Also note that lead paint waste will be treated as hazardous waste....which increases disposal costs. hope this helps .
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 13 November 2015 07:56:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Good comments from Simon. The difficulty I have with this scenario is that the PC should be implementing any testing and controls for lead based paint. For instance, the controls should have been articulated in the CPP. It does not need the PD to identify the issue...it's well known that old paint often contains lead. If we are not careful we will end up with paralysis by analysis. Ray
ptaylor14  
#6 Posted : 13 November 2015 09:06:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

How significant is the risk from lead base paint if the object has been painted for years and a rip out is involved? Im not talking about sanding down and creating dust from lead based paint.
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 13 November 2015 17:03:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I'm with the PD. You're not setting out to burn or abrade the paint. Risk is infinitesimal. There's probably more lead in the roof flashings - worth a fair few quid, and the contractor won't need a survey to enable him to find that!!!!!
wjp62  
#8 Posted : 13 November 2015 17:48:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wjp62

From the HSE FAQ page Do I need to carry out a lead survey? No - you need to decide whether or not the work you are carrying out will result in employees or other people being exposed to lead. You should consider this as part of the risk assessment process. If exposure to lead is likely to be significant you may need to carry out an initial air monitoring survey to check how much lead is in the air. Further information on when air monitoring surveys are required can be found in the Control of Lead at Work ACOP. Also Construction hazardous substances: Lead http://www.hse.gov.uk/co...dous-substances/lead.htm
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