Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
denehazelwood  
#1 Posted : 16 November 2015 20:51:24(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
denehazelwood

I have been approached by a local charity with regard to an annual event they hold, where they have historically experienced a number of malicious activated false alarms.


Due to the nature of the event (Disco & Band Entertainment) the sound level can be quite high and renders the ability of the alarm system to be heard useless.


A proposal has been put together to replace the venue alarm system with a manual procedure for raising the alarm and informing the event attendees and initiating an evacuation if required.

I would like thoughts and legalities of the following proposal. I can see reason to use a safe system that will be heard and acted upon by the guests, but wonder if removing the electronic alarm is reasonable and permissible?

Scenario:

• Annual Charity Event for 1650 guests + up to 150 staff/volunteers
• Venue is large open plan hall (toilets are off one end) all other parts of hall are part of the open plan.
• Hall size approx. 63m x 35m with 6m high ceiling.
• Sufficient fire exits for the capacity. Doors spread down both sides.
• Hall has an old alarm system with manual call points by each exit door. No automatic detection.
• Event features a band and DJ – thus relatively loud music is throughout the hall.
• Hall alarm system could be considered ‘not fit for purpose’ as it cannot be heard when the music is playing. A few people stood under the bells may hear the alarm and have previously become confused as to what action to take.
• Onsite Event Management Team (volunteers) consists of approx. 20 people along with 34 SIA Security Staff. All on a two way radio system.
• There are also around another 30 stewards (Volunteers) working the event.

• A fire risk assessment and a risk assessment for proposal has been carried out and deem it to be a reasonable solution to the problem. Risk of fire within the building is low.

Proposal:

Background information to consider relating to our plan:
• Historically high number of malicious false alarms (activated break glass).
• We have a team of around 75 people made up of Charity Management/Event Management Team, stewards, staff and security distributed around the venue. Giving suitable coverage and visibility of the whole venue to spot issue and raise alarm.
• Approx 50 of these are connected via two way radio.
• The current alarm cannot be heard by the majority of guests in the building whilst the entertainment is playing (deemed ‘not fit for purpose’), – so has little effect but to confuse others – those who do hear it ignore it awaiting instructions of what to do.
• The following is an outline proposed emergency response plan including raising the alarm and evacuation – final wording to be confirmed.
• The proposed plan would be to:

Pre actions:
• Disarm the current alarm system in the hall and appoint a designated responsible person to hold the key throughout the event.
• Mark call points (break glass) out of use - ‘In case of emergency alert a steward’.
• Position security staff adjacent to where there is currently a call point (this is part of our security plan, but historically hasn’t always managed to prevent malicious activations)
• Full detailed briefing to all event team staff and security prior to doors open – including fire drill practice.

Reporting of Incident (Raising the Alarm) and Identification:
• If an incident (such as fire) is reported to a steward or spotted they radio to the Event Manager a ‘Priority Call’ and define the report.
• Event Manager becomes Incident Manager and puts all units on ‘Standby’ and to maintain radio silence unless priority - Stewards deploy to pre determined locations/areas; including to the stage and each exit door.
• Reporting Steward to, if possible safely investigate and ID the incident (if real or false) and report and update Incident Manager. Or Incident Manager to deploy a steward.
• 2 minutes has been assigned to the identification of a hazard - after which, if the incident cannot be identified as a false alarm or there is an incident, the alarm is raised and evacuation plan initiated.

Evacuation of Building:
• Once it has been deemed that the need to evacuate the building is real, the Incident Manager will initiate the evacuation plan; Top line actions below: (Detailed version in draft form and to be finalised)
• Radio communication to all to confirm need to commence evac.
• Incident command to call Emergency Services and deploy person to RVP to meet them.
• Stage steward instructs band/DJ to cease and uses their PA systems to make and repeat a Plain English announcement to leave the building and follow the direction of the stewards. A loud hailer will be available in case of power failure.
• Designated person to rearm the alarm system and sound the alarm.
• Stewards to evacuate their designated area and confirm to Incident Command area clear or if there are problems.
• Security stewards to secure the perimeter of the building and prevent re-entry.

Assessment of risk relating to the change in procedure for raising the alarm:
• The current system already requires human activation as there is no fire detection within the hall.
• All current locations for activating the alarm will be manned by security personnel in radio contact – and can confirm if the threat is real much quicker that having to first locate the activation point via the control panel and then ID if the threat is real (which would likely take at minimum 2 minutes to access, may be longer) Therefore in the case of confirmed threat we can commence evacuation sooner.
• Current system is not fit for purpose for this type of event as it cannot be heard over the music – therefore the proposed cutting of music and plain English message is more likely to be heard, understood and acted upon. (Modification of the alarm system is financially not possible for the charity. Venue owners want to pass the large cost on)
• Reduces likelihood of initiating an evacuation due to a false alarm and therefore reducing risk of panic and confusion.
• This is the only event the Charity operates with high attendance that has any kind of fixed alarm system in place in the venue; and as such the above procedure is one which they have tried and tested are used to operating by successfully.


Questions:
• Is the disabling of the current alarm – with the implementation of the proposed alternative response – permissible?
• Are the above proposed procedures reasonable?

Thank you for your thoughts and advise.

Regards

Dene
stevie40  
#2 Posted : 17 November 2015 13:05:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

If it was me I would look for an alternative venue.

For a venue holding that many people for that type of event, I would expect to see upgraded sounders, strobe lights and a link to the PA system that will kill the music feed but still permit announcements.

Can you imagine having to explain to the press, enforcing authorities, peoples families that you disabled the fire alarm system in a building?
denehazelwood  
#3 Posted : 17 November 2015 13:24:04(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
denehazelwood

Likewise having to explain that no one could hear the alarm.

Luckily there is a robust procedure in place to respond to a fire and facilitate an evacuation.

I understand the desire to remove the confusion the alarm gives to some people, but I believe that a practical and proactive response to a threat is the most import, as has been seen time and time again; people's response to hearing a fire alarm isn't always the most energetic!

Thanks for your reply.
jay  
#4 Posted : 17 November 2015 17:12:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

I presume that there are automatic smoke/heat detectors--why disable the entire fire alarm system? Is it not possible to disable the break-glass units except those "controllable" by some means ?
jay  
#5 Posted : 17 November 2015 17:21:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

My apologies! I did not read that there is no fire detection within the hall.
mssy  
#6 Posted : 17 November 2015 21:37:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

The RP is required to review the FRA if any changes make this necessary - and you have (in effect) done that.

You need to have a system to warn others of fire - Your review has found the current system is not fit for YOUR purpose, therefore you have designed an alternative plan which is arguably better that a manual fire alarm system if managed adequately.

So far so good.

But I am very concerned that you are considering a delayed evacuation. In fire alarm terms (BS 5839), it is unusual to automatically delay a fire evacuation when it originates from a manual call point. In your case, you are replacing you MCP with a Steward who will receive a warning of fire from a person. Is it likely that a party-goer will approach a steward with false information with the risk of being identified?

I would go for a full evacuation every time and drop the two-minute search time. Its far too unreliable for a small venue packed with unruly (drunk??) party-goers and the delay is unacceptable IMO

Then there's the issue or training the Stewards. This needs to be comprehensive, carried out before the event and verifiable by a small exam at the end. I would issue training notes and get signatures from those attending - and even carry out a drill or two to practice the procedure in practical terms and in real time.

Lastly, as you are in effect reviewing the FRA, the change, the procedure and how it will be implemented, trained and controlled need to be recorded in detail.

If the event is licensed, you would be advised to run the proposals by the licensing authority

In summary, fire safety legislation does allow you to be flexible and to make the changes you have identified. So go on, do it - but make sure you do it right. I get continually frustrated by the 'I wouldn't do that' or 'what would the media say?' brigade. It's clear that you have spent a lot of time on this plan and (as far as can be determined from a blind assessment) it seems reasonable as long as you drop the time delay

Please do come back to tell us what you decide
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 18 November 2015 10:54:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I Agree with what mssy has to say, he is very experienced at fire safety so is worh listening to.

I would add, however, to discuss this with the local Fire Safety officer and notify your local Fire and Rescue Service of the event.

As I see this it is an infrequent event and for the fire service to be pre warned would be an advantage.

As a fire service officer in charge of one or two crews I would be horrified to arrive at a fire situation to be told there are potentially 1800 people to account for.

Long time ago when I inspected Bingo Halls they had a pre warning system of playing a certain record over the PA system to start the evecuation process without causing panic.

One of the favourites was "Red Sails in the Sunset".
James Robinson  
#8 Posted : 18 November 2015 15:18:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
James Robinson

All seems good information above.

Just a quick advisory,
2-way radios - make sure they do actually work in the venue and at the time of the event. It's fine having a play with them in the pre-event meeting, but when the party is in full flow most of these systems are very hard hear and communicate with, throat mics and ear-pieces?
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 19 November 2015 12:34:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Not wishing to spoil the party but in light of recent events perhaps an anti terrorist threat procedure may be in order.

I was talking with a couple of shopping centre managers last Thursday who were on a training course the following day Friday 13th, all about the potential terrorist threat to a shopping mall.

They certainly picked the right day for that course.
DP  
#10 Posted : 19 November 2015 12:45:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

firstly sorry to hijack the tread - but its an appropriate time - I have found some training for shopping centre public safety looks very good - Im booked on for Feb (not cheap). Anybody want the link PM me.

Its supported by the Cabinet Office too.

Once again apologies for the hijack.
westonphil  
#11 Posted : 19 November 2015 16:54:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
westonphil

FireSafety101 wrote:
Not wishing to spoil the party but in light of recent events perhaps an anti terrorist threat procedure may be in order.

I was talking with a couple of shopping centre managers last Thursday who were on a training course the following day Friday 13th, all about the potential terrorist threat to a shopping mall.


What did they consider were the most important things they learned and which would reduce the risk?

Regards


denehazelwood  
#12 Posted : 24 November 2015 19:30:48(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
denehazelwood

Thank you everyone for your detailed responses, they were most helpful in the thought process.

Unfortunately the venue said a flat 'no' to the proposal or to discussing an alternative; citing that if they were to disarm the alarm the law would be merciless to them and their insurers would walk away. So we will let the bell ring.

Does beg the question what their insurers would say if something happened and they found out that it was raised with them that their system wasn't suitable for the purpose the building was being hired out for and they didn't want to discuss a possible solution.

Thanks again everyone
stevie40  
#13 Posted : 26 November 2015 12:26:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

Dene,
Not all insurers survey the properties they insure and those that do will select by sum insured or previous loss history.

I have advised my employers in the past to walk away from risks with no fire alarm and large public capacity. Worst one was a seaside entertainment complex with public house, amusement arcade, chip shop, 1200 seat auditorium and kids play area.

Told the owner we would need them to fit an L2 minimum fire alarm system and they flat refused, saying they would only do it if the brigade told them to. This was post 2006 reform so I knew that was unlikely.

The place burnt down 3 months later, fortunately in the early hours when deserted.

I was sorely tempted on that one to make a call and advise the local EHO the premises were unsafe.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.