CDM: Same site two different clients, two projects Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic » Normal Threaded

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AdrianP		#1 Posted : 18 May 2016 09:03:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user		A school (the Client) in Essex will be undertaking a classroom refurbishment project which falls out side CDM rules i.e. under 500 man hrs. On the same site Essex County Council (the client) will be undertaking a re-roofing project which requires CDM management: this will be managed by the principal designed appointed by ECC and principal contractor. Question should both projects be combined into a single CDM management or can they be managed separately ?
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bigpub		#2 Posted : 18 May 2016 09:27:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		I'm afraid they do come under the CDM regs. Just no need to notify.. That should be 500 person days not hours
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RayRapp		#3 Posted : 18 May 2016 09:48:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		As above, and if the two projects are simultaneous then it makes sense to appoint a Principal Contractor to manage both projects and to provide a CPP reflecting this joint approach.
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walker		#4 Posted : 18 May 2016 10:23:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		The original reason (now lost in the politics & gold plating) of CDM was to coordinate contractors working on the same site so they did not endanger each other. So I'd suggest the client stops trying to find loop holes to avoid doing the job properly.
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bigpub		#5 Posted : 18 May 2016 10:26:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Yes. If applied correctly CDM is a good vehicle for moving a job on safely. But people always try to circumvent the spirit of it
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Ron Hunter		#6 Posted : 18 May 2016 12:49:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Politics, devolved budgets, and misinterpretations of CDM aside: School campus can be extensive, and often perfectly feasible for 2 (or more) Projects and other undertakings to take place simultaneously without any real overlap issues. If the classroom refurb. and re-roof are in same block, then yes one Client needs to take this on collectively. If remote on campus, then it might well be possible and preferable to bash on as separate project programs. Horses for courses?
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IanDakin		#7 Posted : 18 May 2016 13:13:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		I think also AdrianP is making the classic error thinking that if the project is not notifiable, then it is not covered by CDM 2015. Which ever way the project is done CDM will apply and will need CPP. Separating the projects will mean two projects and two CPP. Managing them together will mean 1 CPP but will definitely then require a PC and PD.
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AdrianP		#8 Posted : 18 May 2016 13:42:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user		Thank you all for your comments: Classic error in thinking is noted. We are moving toward a single point PD & PC
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firesafety101		#9 Posted : 18 May 2016 20:18:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		What If! The classroom refurbish contractor is not a competent PC and reluctant to take on that responsibility, and if the roofing contractor is not familiar with refurbishment works and all that entails. CDM is not simply a paper excercise.
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RayRapp		#10 Posted : 19 May 2016 08:01:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		firesafety101 wrote: What If! The classroom refurbish contractor is not a competent PC and reluctant to take on that responsibility, and if the roofing contractor is not familiar with refurbishment works and all that entails. CDM is not simply a paper excercise. There will always be what ifs...agree that CDM is not simply a paper exercise, but you have to start somewhere. A CPP will not replace good communication and co-operation on site.
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firesafety101		#11 Posted : 19 May 2016 09:18:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		I would add that the refurbishment project is likely to involve more than one contractor therefore a CPP will be required.
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6foot4		#12 Posted : 19 May 2016 09:24:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		firesafety101 wrote: I would add that the refurbishment project is likely to involve more than one contractor therefore a CPP will be required. Um no. All construction work, whether no contractors, one contractor or 100 requires a Construction Phase Plan. A non-domestic client undertaking the construction work themselves, without employing contractors = construction phase plan required (the client fulfils the contractor the duties). One contractor on site = construction phase plan required more than one contractor on site = construction phase plan required
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watcher		#13 Posted : 19 May 2016 10:27:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		firesafety101 wrote: I would add that the refurbishment project is likely to involve more than one contractor therefore a CPP will be required. I don't think that is a "therefore". If it's construction work, it needs a CPP. Your further qualification is not needed.
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AdrianP		#14 Posted : 20 May 2016 13:20:50(UTC)
Rank: New forum user		For your information after much debate, the two project will be managed as a single one with regard to CDM This task will be undertaken by the local authority appointed consultant.
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