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Invictus  
#1 Posted : 18 May 2016 13:19:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

I have been asked to present a fire warden course which I am happy and qualified to do. I have been asked to complete the practical extinguisher session, I asked for the LPG equipment or the on screen type. I have been told they do not have that, but the last person used to just start a fire in a bin or against the wall and people would have a go. We are in a built up area, with our own premises, a hotel next to us, just over the wall, a primary school and a secure unit and offices on the other side. They have informed me that nothing has ever gone wrong, I have told them bluntly and it won't with me because it is not happening.
I was just looking for something to back my argument. I am not sure they all get it.

I have explained that the session legally does not have to be practical although it does make it more exciting

I am not being threatened to do it or anything but I remember the safety officer who set fire to a skip and burnt himself and was sued. Or have I made that up.
PIKEMAN  
#2 Posted : 18 May 2016 13:28:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

Try asking your local fire service for advice? In the past I have made the "fire" a car warning triangle, then get people to attack it with extinguishers. Worked well but not as good as real flames. If you do "play with fire" I would think it through carefully, and have a competent buddy as back up and plenty of extinguishers. I did this however my "buddy" did catch fire on one occasion! (Thanks goodness for Proban!)
firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 19 May 2016 09:40:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Unlikely to get approval from anyone and I don't recommend it. Too many chances for things to go wrong.

If you want to get the fire service involved get them to do the training. It is well recommended.
Invictus  
#4 Posted : 19 May 2016 09:48:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

firesafety101 wrote:
Unlikely to get approval from anyone and I don't recommend it. Too many chances for things to go wrong.

If you want to get the fire service involved get them to do the training. It is well recommended.



We are not doing it anyway, we are no looking at getting the LPG simulator. I have already been told that the candidates will not be happy as they feel competent when they use the extinguisher. There is not a legal requirement as far as I know that anyone has to have practical experience.

But as said we will move towards LPG. The car park is about 5 foot away from where they used to light the paper, so very little control.
stevedm  
#5 Posted : 19 May 2016 10:14:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I have always used and advocated fighting a real fire in such training - that said the trainees are ER Team members so do you need that level of training for staff - probably not they just need to know how to point and shoot..

Secondly what does your risk assessment for the activity say anyway....the presumption is that is risky - everything is risky but assessed correctly presumptions can change...maybe that isn't the most severe risk you face?
Invictus  
#6 Posted : 19 May 2016 11:37:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

stevedm wrote:
I have always used and advocated fighting a real fire in such training - that said the trainees are ER Team members so do you need that level of training for staff - probably not they just need to know how to point and shoot..

Secondly what does your risk assessment for the activity say anyway....the presumption is that is risky - everything is risky but assessed correctly presumptions can change...maybe that isn't the most severe risk you face?



I would put it high, residential care services for the elderly, children and vulnerable people.
kevkel  
#7 Posted : 19 May 2016 16:13:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

Are we not in the business of making at risk situations safe without the need for blanket bans? Plan a safe fire using an appropriate container, correct extinguishers accelerant and fuel. Tell the neighbours what is going on and train the staff in real life, real time situations.
I have just finished filming a fire safety video for an in house online course and had a simulated fire (using LPG trainer) with real flames reaching 6ft from desk height, oh and it was indoors! Proper precautions and planning was implemented and the session, including response of fire warden with extinguisher was filmed without any issues. this was completed in a building with over 200 vulnerable people.
My advice- Do what your trained and educated to do, manage the risk!
Invictus  
#8 Posted : 19 May 2016 20:31:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

or don't create one were none exists.
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