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WatsonD  
#41 Posted : 27 May 2016 08:02:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

biker1 wrote:
WatsonD wrote:
biker1 wrote:
Although this case can be considered a non-issue, and not one that the HSE should concern itself with (although the myth busters panel do get involved in cases from all walks of life), I think achrn does have a point. By citing the reason for dismissing this case as the chance of injury being 'incredibly small', the HSE have shot themselves in the foot. The university involved doesn't seem to consider the risk of injury as being that slim. There might be a hidden agenda of the hire firms kicking off about damaged mortar boards being returned to them, but if injuries are being experienced, the HSE have not done their reputation any good by appearing to be so dismissive.
If I may just pick up a few points here: 1) The University has NOT banned the throwing of mortar boards, but asked that it is not encouraged. Wrongly Reported in the press. 2) We do not have any statistics of merit to show that this is indeed a common occurrence. Otherwise what about incidents in other Universities? UAE site a couple of occasions over the last two years - what about the last 10, 20 or 50 years? I suspect that it is a standard practice to offer a bit of H&S advice to students: not to look up after throwing their mortar boards, or to throw them up and out to mitigate the risk, which is probably what other Universities are doing rather than this nonsense. I don't see how the HSE have shot themselves n the foot by applying common sense
If I might return the compliment and pick up on a couple of points. Firstly, nowhere do I repeat the mistaken belief that the university has banned this practice; I am quite aware of what the university is actually asking for. Secondly, although most people would indeed agree that common sense needs to be applied, in their rush to appease the people up in arms over the issue, the HSE has fallen into a trap, of dismissing the issue on the basis of an 'incredibly small' risk of injury without justifying this, instead of simply relying on a call for common sense. By all means criticise the university's stand, but do make sure you do it on sound grounds. Should the HSE have got involved? Well, the myth busters panel do get involved in all sort of cases, not many of which are actually work related, so it would seem to be fair game for them.
Thanks biker1. Didn't intend to pick out your post specifically, but it was the last of a particular line of conversation which the later posts had moved from, so I just wanted to bring my points back into context.
stevedm  
#42 Posted : 27 May 2016 08:07:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

WatsonD wrote:
stevedm wrote:
798 view on this topic and 200 on manslaughter charge...mmmm and I did and I will be encouraging my son to do the same when he graduates this year...
And yet you have commented on here twice now, and not once on the manslaughter thread.
Just remind me how the thread is improving the image of the profession and safety?.....
Invictus  
#43 Posted : 27 May 2016 08:29:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

It doesn't but the press don't care and are not willing to look at the reasons behind decisions i.e. Todays Daily Star Elf and safety fear sore wrists! This is because the rail industry and stopping the use of ticket clippers, they clip over 600 tickets a day, of course why try and look at the facts when just a head line will do. It then goes on about this subject and then about the ban on beards, no mention about face masks not fitting properly and therefore can still cause harm, no! just beards are banned. Damned if you do, compenstaion paid if you don't!
WatsonD  
#44 Posted : 27 May 2016 08:46:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

stevedm wrote:
WatsonD wrote:
stevedm wrote:
798 view on this topic and 200 on manslaughter charge...mmmm and I did and I will be encouraging my son to do the same when he graduates this year...
And yet you have commented on here twice now, and not once on the manslaughter thread.
Just remind me how the thread is improving the image of the profession and safety?.....
It isn't, and that is the point you seem to be missing. The reason this is being discussed widely on this forum is because it is another example of how H&S get abused in the press. It is the bugbear for every H&S practitioner who has ever hear the line "health and Safety's gone mad" or words to that effect. This is a national example we can all get around of what happens every day: people blaming H&S to suit their own reasons. Unfortunately, the so-called ban made the news; the actual facts didn't.
achrn  
#45 Posted : 27 May 2016 10:05:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

WatsonD wrote:
This is a national example we can all get around of what happens every day: people blaming H&S to suit their own reasons. Unfortunately, the so-called ban made the news; the actual facts didn't.
Actually, my original point was more that the HSE response didn't seem based on the actual facts. I don't expect the tabloid press to talk sense about H&S, I did rather hope the HSE would be more accurate, but in this case they seem to prefer the eye-catching soundbite rather than the facts.
Graham Bullough  
#46 Posted : 27 May 2016 13:33:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

The phrase "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" seems a very apt one for journalists. It could be argued that most don't either bother, want or have time/resources to look for the full facts about situations they think will provide stories likely to be of interest to their readers/viewers. This is certainly the case with "H&S gone mad" type stories of which the alleged "mortar board throwing ban" is just the latest. Discussion of it on this forum seems to have provided some degree of background analysis which, to echo achrn's point above, HSE did not or probably could not do in its apparent haste to react to the story in the form of a press release and latest addition to its Myth Buster pages. In order to get a better perspective about the scenario, my initial posting on this thread #11 did start by asking if any information is available about the frequency and types of injuries, if any, which have occurred at other universities and colleges where mortar board throwing is a tradition. For another example, consider the "conkers bonkers" stories in which journalists and others revelled some years ago. HSE still perpetuates misinformation about it at http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/september.htm which states that a "well-meaning headteacher decided that children should wear safety goggles to play conkers". Now have a look at http://www.theguardian.c...ggles-myth-health-safety for an article by that headteacher who describes why he introduced goggle wearing at his primary school in Cumbria. After one of his pupils asked for goggles, he did so mostly as a jestful reaction about the tedium of spending hours doing numerous risk assessments. However, either the jestful element wasn't conveyed effectively to the journalists he contacted or they simply ignored it and then the resultant story spread widely and rapidly - or 'went viral' in modern parlance! The story mutated into variations such as "conker playing banned" and even "HSE bans conker playing". Some might argue that the headteacher's article comprised a revised version of the actual circumstances after the massive fuss generated about them among the media, HSE, senior politicians and even IOSH. However, the headteacher's article seems fairly accurate to me, not least because it accorded with reliable information already shared within a group of IOSH members, including myself, who dealt with schools in North West England and met every two months to share information, policies and discuss the latest hot topics. It's very evident that people generally prefer to read sensationalist eye-catching stories such as those about conkers and mortar board-throwing (which might literally be "eye catching" for a very few participants!). Such people include viewers of this forum. Consider how many more viewings and responses it has had compared with those for the "reverse procedure waste" thread which appeared several days ago about the reversing of lorries collecting domestic waste and recyclables. If such reversing isn't done safely, it can kill or seriously injure people, members of the public and collection workers, as shown by the litany of statistics about such work over many years. That is why safe reversing of collection vehicles (or indeed any large vehicles, whether in public or private locations) is crucial and therefore strongly promoted by H&S professionals such as those who are members of the Waste Industry Safety and Health (WISH) Forum and IOSH's Environmental & Waste Management Group.
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