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bigpub  
#1 Posted : 03 June 2016 11:50:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

A company asks a guy to play football in a tournament during works time. i.e 3pm. During the game the guy breaks his toe.
He requests that this is put in the accident book as it occurred during a works event. But the employer has refused. So where does he go from here. As he is the injured party and he should make sure it is reported. They are refusing.
SP900308  
#2 Posted : 03 June 2016 11:55:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

bigpub wrote:
A company asks a guy to play football in a tournament during works time. i.e 3pm.


Is the guy a professional footballer?
hilary  
#3 Posted : 03 June 2016 12:17:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

As SP900308 says, if he is not a professional footballer then the accident did not arise from carrying out his normal job functions and, therefore, is not reportable. However, I would be inclined to put it in the accident book just for the record that it happened while undertaking a non-working activity.
bigpub  
#4 Posted : 03 June 2016 12:18:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

No not a pro footballer. Good question though.
Invictus  
#5 Posted : 03 June 2016 12:21:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

We never put them in the accident book but recorded it as a sporting injury ans therefore not reportable.
WatsonD  
#6 Posted : 03 June 2016 12:24:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Putting aside the fact that it isn't work related, the injury itself - broken toe - is not reportable either as fingers,thumbs and toes don't count
Invictus  
#7 Posted : 03 June 2016 12:35:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Why not let them complete an accident report for retention if they don't want it in the accident book. A copy can then be held by him and one on his file.

If he needs to go off from work will they still pay him his hourly rate, we used to as normally playing football was a request by the director.

Sounds like someone is thinking of a claim to me!
Kate  
#8 Posted : 03 June 2016 12:35:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Because it is only a broken toe it is not RIDDOR reportable but this is not a RIDDOR question, it is about reporting the injury in the accident book.

If he was asked by the employer to play during working hours then I can see why he would expect to report the injury in the accident book.

I don't see the point of refusing to record it in the accident book.

As to where he goes from here, that depends on what he wants to achieve.
bigpub  
#9 Posted : 03 June 2016 12:36:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

But if he was following an instruction from his employer, then surely it should go in the accident book. Regardless if it becomes a RIDDOR.
Invictus  
#10 Posted : 03 June 2016 13:07:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Why do you think it is an accident, just because there is an injury doesn't make it an accident. Was it out of or in connection with his work, No he was not carrying out an work task!
bigpub  
#11 Posted : 03 June 2016 13:47:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

Ok so back to the original statement. I know it's not reportable but what about not being able to put it into the accident book. It was during works time and requested as a work activity as it was for the works team.
peterL  
#12 Posted : 03 June 2016 13:57:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

Volenti non fit injuria - anyone, but saying that I would record somewhere as a record in case of possible future litigation.

Pete,
SP900308  
#13 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:02:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

peterL wrote:
Volenti non fit injuria - anyone, but saying that I would record somewhere as a record in case of possible future litigation.

Pete,


I wonder if the organisation is insured for such activities?
Invictus  
#14 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:06:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Sorry can't see it is a work activity unless he is a coach or activities organiser and is expected to do this as part of his role.

Just because he was requested to play he could of said no! What is the arguement about putting it in the accident book anyway. Not that I think it should be there because it is not work related. If it had happened at lunch time it wouldn't of gone in.
Invictus  
#15 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:12:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Sorry can't see it is a work activity unless he is a coach or activities organiser and is expected to do this as part of his role.

Just because he was requested to play he could of said no! What is the arguement about putting it in the accident book anyway. Not that I think it should be there because it is not work related. If it had happened at lunch time it wouldn't of gone in.
peterL  
#16 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:18:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

Lots of variables here, did the injury occur on site or on a public pitch, was the pitch inspected prior to use, did the injury occur as a result of a forceful tackle etc - all would have bearing on any claim (if that's the issue).

I believe insurance (EL or PL) would not come into play (no pun intended), as the individual was not employed to play football and it's doubtful that this is within their current job description, presumably he volunteered to be part of the works team - hence, Volenti non fit injuria - but at the end of the day up to a Court to decide (if required), for me with this one just record on his personnel file for the reason given earlier, not really an accident (as per the recognised definition) relating to work, so no accident book record required, just log.

Pete,
bigpub  
#17 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:44:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

As for job descriptions, they sometimes state.... and any other duties deemed necessary by your manager
Invictus  
#18 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:47:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

quote=bigpub]As for job descriptions, they sometimes state.... and any other duties deemed necessary by your manager



Not sure that can include playing football, that's ridiculous, so a manager can now make you do anything, don't think so.
bigpub  
#19 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:53:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

I'm not saying they can but it does say it on my contract
Invictus  
#20 Posted : 03 June 2016 14:53:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Anyway it's friday and I have just been told by my manager I need to have a fight in the car park as he deems it necessary! Hey he's the manager so I have to do it.

Not sure ill be here monday just seen the size of the other guy.
bigpub  
#21 Posted : 03 June 2016 15:04:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

I'll hold your coat
chris42  
#22 Posted : 03 June 2016 15:31:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

quote=Invictus]quote=bigpub]As for job descriptions, they sometimes state.... and any other duties deemed necessary by your manager



Not sure that can include playing football, that's ridiculous, so a manager can now make you do anything, don't think so.


They always have been able to. When I started my Apprenticeship ( 30+ years ago) I was forced to take part in apprentice sports or lose my apprenticeship. I was not told this until day one when I turned up and had no other options available to me. Guess what, I broke my arm playing "murder ball" while in work, cost me a fortune as I was half way through a set of driving lessons.

The BI510 form (accident book) is required under social security legislation. If this means he can not work the social security people may ask for a copy of the BI510 for him to claim benefit.

If he was instructed to play or otherwise given very little choice, I would not be so sure it may not be deemed work related. I had a quick look at those accident sites and they seem to suggest that EL insurance covers company organised functions like Christmas parties etc and this sounds like a company organised activity. Seems muddy and I think I would let him complete an accident book entry. If he makes a claim then so be it, let the insurance sort it out.

I agree with Kate at #8 this is not about RIDDOR definitions.

Chris
Granlund40055  
#23 Posted : 03 June 2016 15:40:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Granlund40055

Chris #22 beat me to it.
20 years ago it would have been called team building, organised by HR and all expected to participate.

But back to the original post. The question was that the Employer is refusing to allow the injury to be recorded in the accident book. What should the employee do?

I don’t see a problem with putting the injury in the accident book. The subsequent investigation should identify the relevant facts and help decide if it was work related or not, if there is a potential EL claim, does the employer have any responsibility etc etc.

The injured footballer has, I assume, given verbal notice of the injury to his employer so has satisfied his obligation under the Social Security (Claims and Payments) Regs 1979. If he wants to notify his employer in writing there is then a record of the injury.

The accident book should be readily accessible so an injured person can record the details of their injury. By refusing access to it the employer could be in breach of Reg 25 (3) of these Regs.

I do like Fridays
Ian
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