Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Jennifer Begley  
#1 Posted : 14 June 2016 15:41:29(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Jennifer Begley

I need some help. I am trying to get my company through SSiP accreditation (for the 5th year in a row), but the assessor is stating that he will only accept PASMA stamped certificates for mobile access tower training. Is this law?

I have been on the PASMA website and the HSE website but I can't find where it states that the training provider has to be PASMA stamped. I believe that this may be myth? Much like the UKATA accreditation for asbestos (that was a fun day on the internet...)

Any and all help will be appreciated.
HSSnail  
#2 Posted : 14 June 2016 16:16:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Jennifer

SSiP is a bit like any club if you want to be part of it you abide by there rules. If you are asking if PASMA training is a legal requirement, then no you just need to be competent. If you think your assessor is wrong ask SSiP what they will accept.

gerrysharpe  
#3 Posted : 14 June 2016 18:46:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

All the Sites i've been too have PASMA trained operatives for erection of Mobile Tower platforms. I don't really know of anyone else that does it similar training thats recognised throughout the UK.

As for training them yourselves The Pasma Route is a Five day course to train as a trainer and costs £2100 + Vat

Which is pretty expensive but if your going to be training loads of people then it might be worth it.

However if you think you could just train them on your own without the Official Pasma Instructors training, then i think your going to have difficultly in getting other associations and schemes to approve your standard of training.

Might be cheaper and better to pay for the staff to go on an approved course and get their pasma Card, Almost every building site in the UK requires Pasma Trained errectors and will just not let anyone errect a scaffold without this card. Its around £100 to Train a person for their Pasma Card.

Might be the cheaper option for you?

frankc  
#4 Posted : 16 June 2016 10:08:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

gerrysharpe wrote:
All the Sites i've been too have PASMA trained operatives for erection of Mobile Tower platforms. I don't really know of anyone else that does it similar training thats recognised throughout the UK.

As for training them yourselves The Pasma Route is a Five day course to train as a trainer and costs £2100 + Vat

Which is pretty expensive but if your going to be training loads of people then it might be worth it.



Just a word of warning, Gerry. The £2100 + VAT you mention is for someone to become a Pasma Instructor. There is also a fee of around £5k for registering as a Pasma centre and an annual fee + audit fees. You would be correct in your last comment of getting them trained externally. It would be much cheaper. As for Jennifer's query, you don't have to have Pasma as a legal requirement but like Brian said, if you want to join, you have to play by their rules.
gerrysharpe  
#5 Posted : 16 June 2016 10:51:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

Thanks Frankc, yes its pretty expensive and since they are the only ones in the UK that do this for Tower Scaffolds then its the set price.

To train an individual for 5 Years costs around £100 or thereabouts which isn't that expensive if you break it down to yearly totals.

PASMA is recognized on all UK sites and you'll be hard pressed to find a site that allows something different, or even if you have your own in house training
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 16 June 2016 11:07:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

This page might be misleading some out there....

http://www.hse.gov.uk/wo.../wait/mobilescaffold.htm

I understood that SSIP used PAS91 as a baseline acceptable standard, however there will be many signed-up schemes operating to a higher standard.

Bottom line though, if you want to work in the construction sector, your more than likely to be asked for PASMA evidence at tender stage. As others suggest, you might be as well to bite the bullet anyway.
frankc  
#7 Posted : 16 June 2016 11:31:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

Ron Hunter wrote:
This page might be misleading some out there....

http://www.hse.gov.uk/wo.../wait/mobilescaffold.htm

I understood that SSIP used PAS91 as a baseline acceptable standard, however there will be many signed-up schemes operating to a higher standard.

Bottom line though, if you want to work in the construction sector, your more than likely to be asked for PASMA evidence at tender stage. As others suggest, you might be as well to bite the bullet anyway.


Anyone who is Pasma trained will notice the tower in the link you provided, Ron is not built in compliance of both Pasma or the Work @ Height Regs.
Kim Hedges  
#8 Posted : 20 June 2016 11:20:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

On the other hand, if sh*t hits the fan and you have an accident, you have to prove to the HSE and the courts that you did as much as possible to prevent the accident from occurring in the first place, skimping on training is not going to be seen in a positive light.

Remember English law sets absolute basics, this is the letter of the law. What English wants is for everybody to shoulder the Spirit of the law - which is to do far more than what is required.

A PASMA course is simply 1 days training, costs little in comparison to a fine.

I can't see a downside.

On top of that, your workforce can see you are not scrapping the barrel and will work better as their physiological belief in the company will be improved.
Xavier123  
#9 Posted : 20 June 2016 12:29:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

frankc wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
This page might be misleading some out there....

http://www.hse.gov.uk/wo.../wait/mobilescaffold.htm

I understood that SSIP used PAS91 as a baseline acceptable standard, however there will be many signed-up schemes operating to a higher standard.

Bottom line though, if you want to work in the construction sector, your more than likely to be asked for PASMA evidence at tender stage. As others suggest, you might be as well to bite the bullet anyway.


Anyone who is Pasma trained will notice the tower in the link you provided, Ron is not built in compliance of both Pasma or the Work @ Height Regs.


I'm intrigued as to what you see the faults as.

CliveLowery  
#10 Posted : 22 June 2016 07:40:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

Difficult to see from the photo, but the diagonal bracing looks wrong/missing, there is only one handrail on the intermediate platform, on that particular brand of tower you ALWAYS start with the smallest frame at the base - therefore it should be a ladder frame. Theres probably more these were from an initial glance.
frankc  
#11 Posted : 22 June 2016 16:52:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

Xavier123 wrote:


I'm intrigued as to what you see the faults as.



The first think i noticed about the tower was the small frame (or handrail frame as it used to be called) was on the top. As Clive said, this should now be on the base as your starting point if the tower is going to be built to an even level floor (like 2m, 4m, 6m etc) or done away with if you are going to an odd level floor of 1m, 3m, 5m etc.
Like Clive i also noticed the lack of handrails on the intermediate floor plus the fact the gap between the two platforms is 3m. These platforms are assembled every 2m.
As for the diagonal bracings, i can't really see whether any are missing or not.
Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 22 June 2016 17:07:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Xavier123 wrote:
frankc wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
This page might be misleading some out there....

http://www.hse.gov.uk/wo.../wait/mobilescaffold.htm

I understood that SSIP used PAS91 as a baseline acceptable standard, however there will be many signed-up schemes operating to a higher standard.

Bottom line though, if you want to work in the construction sector, your more than likely to be asked for PASMA evidence at tender stage. As others suggest, you might be as well to bite the bullet anyway.


Anyone who is Pasma trained will notice the tower in the link you provided, Ron is not built in compliance of both Pasma or the Work @ Height Regs.


I'm intrigued as to what you see the faults as.



Sorry, I should have clarified. I thought this line might be readily misconstrued, given it's so dominantly displayed on an HSE page:

"Mobile Access Towers are covered by PASMA"

??????


gerrysharpe  
#13 Posted : 22 June 2016 17:27:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

Ron is Bang On,

You'll be hard pressed at this moment to find an alternative to Pasma, The majority of the UK sites demand PASMA qualified personnel, Even the HSE as Ron showed.

I'm guessing that any training that you want to provide must be to PASMA standard and by an approved PASMA trainer.
frankc  
#14 Posted : 23 June 2016 08:33:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

gerrysharpe wrote:
Ron is Bang On,

You'll be hard pressed at this moment to find an alternative to Pasma, The majority of the UK sites demand PASMA qualified personnel, Even the HSE as Ron showed.

I'm guessing that any training that you want to provide must be to PASMA standard and by an approved PASMA trainer.


Training must be suitable and sufficient, Gerry. You'd be correct in saying the vast majority of major sites, if not all, require Pasma but if Alf Diggle & Sons down the road want Tower Training, then that too can be attained.
The HSE could have used a better picture of a tower than the one provided. That wasn't Ron's fault.
Xavier123  
#15 Posted : 23 June 2016 09:02:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

I hadn't picked up on the frame size issue. But then again, I'm not PASMA trained. Maybe that helps make the OP point? ;)
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.