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smandeir  
#1 Posted : 23 June 2016 11:38:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smandeir

I know that accidents have to be recorded so that they can be reported and investigated etc.

My husband's boss is now saying that he doesn't want minor accidents recorded in the accident book as he is trying to prevent workers from putting in claims. But surely they can put in claims against the company regardless of whether it is recorded in the accident book or not?

My husband says his training as a first aider has always been to record all accidents however small, and whether or not the injured person wants it recorded.

I would be interested to hear other peoples opinions on what should and what if anything need not be recorded.
gerrysharpe  
#2 Posted : 23 June 2016 11:57:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

Any injury at work, including minor injuries, should be recorded in your employer's 'accident book'.

All employers (except for very small companies) must keep an accident book.

An accident book is mainly for the benefit of employees, as it provides a useful record of what happened in case you need time off work or need to claim compensation later on, but recording accidents also helps your employer see what's going wrong and take action to stop accidents in future.

By the Employer not wanting to include Minor injuries then he's standing open to being reported to HSE

It is the Responsibility of the First Aiders to record any accidents at the workplace if they are not doing that then they are not carrying out their responsibility correctly.

You can make a Claim against the Company and also state that the employer refused to enter it in the Accident book, so hopefully make a larger Claim should the case go to court.

Its always best to see all accidents recorded and safeguards in place such as reviewing Risk Assessments or Method statements to ensure accidents like these do not happen again.

Safety Smurf  
#3 Posted : 23 June 2016 13:09:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

If an injury is only minor there is unlikely to be sufficient grounds for a claim.
toe  
#4 Posted : 25 June 2016 03:12:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

gerrysharpe wrote:
.

By the Employer not wanting to include Minor injuries then he's standing open to being reported to HSE



The HSE cannot do anything about not recording accidents (unless it's an incident relating to sharps) as recording is not required under H&S Law.

My advise to the OP is to send the accident details by e-mail to the company (delivery and read receipt may help) and keep the e-mail as evidence it has been reported to them, especially if their are no witnesses to the event.
Jimothy999  
#5 Posted : 27 June 2016 12:27:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jimothy999

A quick correction to Toe's statement. Organisations are obliged to record any reportable injury, over-three day injury, disease or dangerous occurrence as defined under RIDDOR.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/what-must-i-keep.htm


gt  
#6 Posted : 27 June 2016 12:50:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gt

gerrysharpe, you say "It is the Responsibility of the First Aiders to record any accidents at the workplace if they are not doing that then they are not carrying out their responsibility correctly."

Are you able to say if this is your local procedure or it is a requirement which is enshrined in national law? I have to admit that I have been failing in this regard for many years because I didn't think it was a first aider responsibility.

Graham
MEden380  
#7 Posted : 27 June 2016 13:20:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

smandier
The Social Security (Claims and Payments)
Regulations 1979
Notice of Accidents – Regulation 24
Require the injured worker or person acting for them
to give the employer specific details of accidents as
soon as practicable either in writing or orally. These are
as follows:
Full name, address and occupation .
Date and time of accident.
lace where accident happened.
Cause and nature of injury.
Name and address and occupation of person giving
notice, if other than the injured person.

Obligation of Employers – Regulation 25
Requires the employer to investigate the circumstances
of every accident reported and record the
circumstances. It also requires employers with ten or
more employees to keep an accident book that is
readily accessible. All accidents in the workplace must
be recorded in the book and records must be kept for
a minimum of three years after the last recorded entry.
toe  
#8 Posted : 27 June 2016 20:24:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Jimothy999 wrote:
A quick correction to Toe's statement. Organisations are obliged to record any reportable injury, over-three day injury, disease or dangerous occurrence as defined under RIDDOR.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/what-must-i-keep.htm




I couldn't see in the RIDDOR SI the requirements for recording! however, reporting = yes. I guess if you are reporting then it is some form of recording, therefore semantics.
I also was under the impression that it was 7 day injuries that needed to be reported (online) and not 3 days. So, the HSE seem to have it wrong at the link above.

My point being the HSE cannot do anything about employers that do-not record accidents. Reporting is a different matter though.
chris42  
#9 Posted : 28 June 2016 08:54:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

toe wrote:
Jimothy999 wrote:
A quick correction to Toe's statement. Organisations are obliged to record any reportable injury, over-three day injury, disease or dangerous occurrence as defined under RIDDOR.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/what-must-i-keep.htm




I couldn't see in the RIDDOR SI the requirements for recording! however, reporting = yes. I guess if you are reporting then it is some form of recording, therefore semantics.
I also was under the impression that it was 7 day injuries that needed to be reported (online) and not 3 days. So, the HSE seem to have it wrong at the link above.

My point being the HSE cannot do anything about employers that do-not record accidents. Reporting is a different matter though.



Try reg 12 titled "Recording and record-keeping"
Jimothy999  
#10 Posted : 28 June 2016 10:31:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jimothy999

toe wrote:
Jimothy999 wrote:
A quick correction to Toe's statement. Organisations are obliged to record any reportable injury, over-three day injury, disease or dangerous occurrence as defined under RIDDOR.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/what-must-i-keep.htm

I couldn't see in the RIDDOR SI the requirements for recording! however, reporting = yes. I guess if you are reporting then it is some form of recording, therefore semantics.
I also was under the impression that it was 7 day injuries that needed to be reported (online) and not 3 days. So, the HSE seem to have it wrong at the link above.

My point being the HSE cannot do anything about employers that do-not record accidents. Reporting is a different matter though.


It is over three days to be recorded internally, over seven days to be reported to the HSE, beware of the difference. Reg 12 as Chris says.

As this is regulatory requirement the HSE can prosecute for failing to make a record as required by RIDDOR. This rarely happens although you do see the occasional prosecution under RIDDOR in parallel other H&S law, e.g. management regs or HASAWA. This seems to happen most often when a serious accident was not reported.
toe  
#11 Posted : 29 June 2016 23:17:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

I stand corrected - and will bow my head in shame for not keeping up-to date with current legislation.
Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 30 June 2016 14:43:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

To OP: By adopting that approach, the employer is actually missing a trick.

The reference is to Social Security Regs. as posted by MEden360.

Regulation 25 requires the employer to investigate records of accidents reported in reasonable time AND record any discrepancy found between that record and his findings.

The truth of the matter being that very few employers take the time to properly investigate the incidents at the time.
Cooper103721  
#13 Posted : 30 June 2016 14:59:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Cooper103721

Hello smandeir

Put it this way, in the extreme case - A paper cut or minor puncture wound gets treated, but the manager does not want it recorded because its only minor. This subsequently gets infected resulting in the finger being cut off. Where is the information of the original accident so that it can be RIDDOR reported to help support both the injured party and Management/Company?

Regards

Bob
Ali Sooltan  
#14 Posted : 30 June 2016 15:07:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ali Sooltan

Yes the requirement to record all accidents and promptly is given in the 1979 Regs so long as there are 10 or more employees. Some how this was missed out.
HSSnail  
#15 Posted : 30 June 2016 15:20:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

This is just from memory so apologies if I have it wrong, but I think the 10 employees is for the prescribed accident book. Below that number you still record but can be in any format.
walker  
#16 Posted : 30 June 2016 15:23:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Jimothy999 wrote:
I also was under the impression that it was 7 day injuries that needed to be reported (online) and not 3 days.


It isn't 7 day injuries and it wasn't 3 day injuries.

It's 7 (was 3) days where the injury sustained prevents you doing your usual job.

chris42  
#17 Posted : 30 June 2016 15:29:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Note the legislation it is in and why it is in there. The legislation actually requires the accident to be recorded

If

A benefit may be payable !

If the injury is one that would not be sufficient for time off work to require or allow a benefit to be payable, then it does not have to be recorded in the accident book. Unless of course you as a company want it to be.

Best of luck getting a benefit payment for a paper cut.

It is of course useful to record all accidents, but that legislation does not specifically require it !

This is going to put the cat amongst the pigeons

Chris

Security image "WakMa"

HSSnail  
#18 Posted : 30 June 2016 15:42:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Come on Chris as a Safety Practitioner you magically know if an injury is going to result in a claim don't you? But you are correct with your quote from the regs.

I had my crystal ball delivered a few years ago but still cannot get it to work!
chris42  
#19 Posted : 30 June 2016 16:43:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Yes, my crystal ball is on the shelf, next to my magic 8 ball, Fairy wand, wizard wand, pixie dust (for working at height), tarot cards and tipex. The shelf itself is of course just above a patch of 4 leaf clover at the end of a rainbow, guarded by a bad tempered unicorn.

And you have about as much chance of claiming any benefits (social security payments as was) as you have, of having any of those items. Don't you actually have to be out of work about a month now before you can claim anything (not sure). So I would have thought most things that only require a wash and plaster will never qualify.

I'm not saying for one moment we should not record, or that a minor injury can not get out of hand.

By the way to get the crystal ball to work you need the correct incantation, which I would tell you but it includes some swear words so cannot be typed on this site.

Chris

Loving the security images today this one is "jihGY"



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